Illinois basketball fans

[TheGame414]

Because there are D2 and D1 bench players in the NBDL. You really think Legion is even worse than them?

Yes.

The "D2 and D1 bench players" are the exception, not the rule. Most of the players in the NBDL were, like I said, at least halfway decent college players. How many guys in the NBDL can you find that were flat-out bad in college? Because I just looked at every D-league roster. I couldn't find any.

[wang4three]

Yes.

The "D2 and D1 bench players" are the exception, not the rule. Most of the players in the NBDL were, like I said, at least halfway decent college players. How many guys in the NBDL can you find that were flat-out bad in college? Because I just looked at every D-league roster. I couldn't find any.

Well, then you need to look harder because there are plenty. You're still acting like there's this wealth of talent just trying to get into the NBDL. Well I'm sure there is a percentage that get turned down, I don't think Legion would be of that percentage. There are people who got less minutes than Alex did and had the same production. Jared Carter? Yemi Ogunoye? J.C. Mathis? David McClure? Stanley Asumnu? Or guys that never went to college or went to Juco? Majic Dorsey? Latavious Williams? Mitchell Johnson? Horace Wormely?

If I looked harder, I could find more. There is definitely an opportunity for Legion if he tried for it.

[ILLsmak]

Enough about Legion. I was never impressed. I was slightly interested when he transferred here, but that didn't last very long.

Let's talk about Brandon Paul.

Do you guys realize what a talent he is? I wish Bruce would stop pulling him when he takes bad shots. Sure, he does need to learn, but there's got to be a better way. He is really struggling now, but I'm sure he will break out of it soon.

I love the way he comes in and snatches O boards over people's backs.

Once we get he and McCamey going at the same time, it'll be on. Everyone else is doing their thing; we just need one more outside threat that can break the defense. Let DJ spot up...

Best part? This year doesn't even matter. It's like practice.

-Smak

[IlliniFan]

How does this year not matter? Everyone expected this team to be a sweet 16 caliber team and we're not even sure they're an NCAA tournament caliber team. If this team doesn't get to the tournament, then this season has to be considered a failure, and we have to hope that this team grows up quickly if we expect them to do big things when Richmond and company arrive.

I think D.J. is better than Brandon. He's really fizzled after those 2 big games at the start of the season. Richardson's jumper is so nice, you expect it to fall every time he puts it up. Paul has an interesting jumper which isn't falling like it was those first couple games. He needs to take advantage of that athleticism and get to the rim and finish or draw some fouls, because we all know that there aren't really a lot of people on this team that can do that right now. I agree with you about those offensive rebounds he gets, and those are nice, but Brandon and D.J. both need to do a better job of helping on the defensive glass. It's so frustrating watching other teams get 2nd and 3rd chance points against us.

[wang4three]

I agree with IF, right now DJ is more consistent than Paul and should be starting over him. I like DJ's intensity; he's out there to work and play hard every possession. I feel Brandon falls in love with his jumpshot a bit too much when he can easily get to wherever he wants on the court and around the rim. DJ on the other hand, takes good shots, he has his hands up constantly, and overall just looks well more polished Brandon. Paul may be the future of this team, but if we're concerned with winning now and executing better I think DJ is the more correct answer.

I'd probably keep Jeff in the starting lineup since he seems to control his turnovers, make the good simple pass, and plays great defense. If he could hit that midrange jumper with more consistency, I'd say we have a permanent starter in our hands. I'm not sure about Cole continuing to start, but I shouldn't doubt Bruce, he knows what he's doing.

However, most importantly, Demitri needs to start controlling his turnovers and playing with consistency. He can easily be our best player every single game. When he starts playing well, everyone else seems to click too, especially Mike and Mike. So here's to hoping that Demitri finds his focus and the team begins to live up to the expectations we had at the start of the season.

[IlliniFan]

I'm not able to watch this game but we've allowed Indiana to score 41 ****ing points in a half and are down 13. If we lose to this team....there are no words....

[wang4three]

I think we're the best comeback team in the country.

[ILLsmak]

How does this year not matter? Everyone expected this team to be a sweet 16 caliber team and we're not even sure they're an NCAA tournament caliber team. If this team doesn't get to the tournament, then this season has to be considered a failure, and we have to hope that this team grows up quickly if we expect them to do big things when Richmond and company arrive.

I think D.J. is better than Brandon. He's really fizzled after those 2 big games at the start of the season. Richardson's jumper is so nice, you expect it to fall every time he puts it up. Paul has an interesting jumper which isn't falling like it was those first couple games. He needs to take advantage of that athleticism and get to the rim and finish or draw some fouls, because we all know that there aren't really a lot of people on this team that can do that right now. I agree with you about those offensive rebounds he gets, and those are nice, but Brandon and D.J. both need to do a better job of helping on the defensive glass. It's so frustrating watching other teams get 2nd and 3rd chance points against us.

Everyone being you and your friends? Did you really think a team this young w/ no leader (bye bye chester) would get to the sweet 16. Sure, we brought in some talent and everyone got a little better, but only a dreamer would expect them to go hard in the tourney. Next year is the year.

By the way, it's not that this year doesn't matter. I want to see them win as much as possible, but we are losing nothing next year and we have even more talent coming in. THAT is the year we have to go deep.

As for DJ being better than Paul, you are absolutely wrong. DJ is a great player, very good at scoring when assisted. But McCamey and Paul are the only two illini players that can get their own shot. It makes no sense to be starting neither.

I definitely don't want to yank DJ out of the lineup, though! He feeds off of other players and does everything right. But we need to go back to opening day lineup. McCamey, Paul, and DJ in the 3 guard offense. If you want a team that has a chance to make it to the sweet 16 it's that group.

Bill Cole is a hustle player who can (but doesn't) hit a jumper. Jordan is a pure point guard that absolutely can not score. It baffles me, but he can't create his own shot. I'd rather have 3 shooting guards who are willing passes than two players who aren't threats on the floor. Paul and McCamey = easy shots for DJ... and we can't get a good shot when we are stagnated by those two non-scorers.

That's just what I feel, though... but I'm sure about the Paul thing. Stay w/ him through this stretch... trust me. He's an NBA talent.


-Smak

[IlliniFan]

No one is saying that Paul is not an NBA talent or that he doesn't have tons of potential. Right now though, Richardson is the better player. Paul is way too streaky, while DJ is very consistent with his jumper.

[ILLsmak]

Hey, dude. I like you because you're an Illini fan. I'm an Illini fan. Don't get it twisted because I speak my point of view openly. It doesn't mean I think you are wrong or that I dislike you. I am just open.

I agree with what you say, but again DJ's jumpers are wide open and Paul is always forcing shots. You gotta have some guys to take contested shots, these days, and that's McCamey and Paul. They are the reason DJ is consistent.

And all of those boards, steals... etc that Paul brings. They aren't huge on the stats, but everything he does is extra... meaning he doesn't grab a board that falls into his hand, he goes in and grabs one that the team probably wouldn't have picked up.

We've seen what it's like in college to have a PG that can't score. I loved Chester, but you need someone who can make an open jumper or it makes the defense just sag into the paint. Lil Jordan needs to figure out how to score because if he does he's our starting PG. I mean, he is anyway, but he's here to stay if he could just do that. I could see bringing McCamey off the bench, but not Paul. I think DJ and Paul should start, and I'm okay w/ Bruce yanking Paul and putting in McCamey but not after a shot or two. They are killing his confidence. It's a delicate thing.

There are certain players who you shouldn't try to bottle. Remember when Bruce said McBride thought he was better than he was? Well, Bruce is playing Paul like he's McBride. Let him get some PT so that next year he's ready to go when we are going to the final four. :)

-Smak

[TheGame414]

Without reading this whole back-and-forth, Brandon Paul's talent level is higher than D.J. Richardson's, yes. It's higher than everyone on the team and, honestly, maybe higher than all but a few guys in the entire conference. And we absolutely need his offense. But right now, he's lost. He's going through stuff that 98% of freshmen in America go through.

ILLsmack is right that D.J. scores on assisted plays more often than Brandon does, but you know what? Right now that's probably a good thing. Demetri McCamey is in total control and Brandon's head is so far up his ass that he doesn't know when to create for himself and when to do...well, anything. Like I said, he's lost right now. D.J. gets his shots in rhythm and beyond that, Brandon plays to avoid contact too much. D.J. doesn't care about contact, and in fact welcomes it and thrives on hitting contested shots.

As talented as Brandon is, and as great as I think he can be, I wouldn't be surprised if D.J. is the better player for their whole college careers. Of course, if the light goes on for Brandon like it has for Demetri- and odds are it will- then BP3 could be earning an NBA paycheck while D.J.'s still in college.

And as much as I'd love for him to be able to play through it, he's currently doing too much to hurt the team. And since I'm pretty sure that Bruce Weber doesn't quite agree that this year is just for practice and doesn't really matter, he can't stay on the floor if he's killing offensive possessions and being late on defensive rotations.

Meanwhile, with BP3 and Davis struggling, Tisdale and DMac have put this team on their backs. I know it was the easy part of the schedule and it wasn't pretty, but all that matters right now is that we're 4-0 in the Big Ten. I'll worry about what happens next starting on Saturday, but with a young team struggling, Demetri McCamey has absolutely put the load on his shoulders. Hopefully the light's come on for good with him, because he's too talented for it not to be.

[ILLsmak]

It's so sad to have someone on our team who is that talented and not give them at least 20 mpg.

I know I look like a fool, but I will defend Brandon still. I saw him sucking vs Penn State, don't remind me. He forced one shot in the paint (another one got blocked, but I thought it was a good shot) but every other shot he shot was good. He is mentally damaged, man. I blame Bruce. Bruce has him doubting himself. It's almost like he only thinks about it at the last minute and then bricks it. He reminds me of how Kobe played when he was a rookie. Remember all those airballs?

Plus, do you not see the HARD defense Paul plays EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION? How he's always going for boards and hustling. And he runs offense, too, better than anyone else. He's always making himself available and people pass it. Then he shoots it. lol, look at every shot he shoots now and keep in mind he's going to be making those soon. He is active no matter how much he is shooting, so keep him on the floor! If Bruce wants to keep him from taking 'bad shots' then STOP PASSING HIM THE BALL! Just having him out there is better than Bill Cole. If Cole is gonna camp outside and hit 50% of his 3s, then he can play... but right now with the scrubby way we are playing we are toast.

These aren't even ranked teams, now when we play the good teams Paul is gonna be even more fragile. You don't think he's good, you don't think he's got heart? He did it vs clemson... at clemson. It's in there, he just needs some love from Bruce. Bruce is a good coach figure, but a couple of times I think he 'checked' a player when they didn't need to be (for instance, McBride)

If he wants to check someone, check Jordan or Cole and tell them they need to be able to get open and make a shot if they want to be on the floor. It's stupid to play 3 vs 5.

-Smak

[ILLsmak]

One more thing, you know Bruce has seen Paul hit all of those jumpers countless times in practice, so there really is no excuse for him benching Paul for going through a slump. Paul stepped out in the first game and said, "I wanna be the star." I admit it bothered McCamey, but now we've got him playing out of his mind... McCamey is the one who forces horrible shots. Almost every one of his shots is contested. Sure, he makes a lot of them but man. When he misses, you're like DAMN IT.

Putting that aside, what do you guys think of Shaun "Black Hole" Pruitt? I really felt he was going to break out his Sr year but he ended up being on a horrible team. Can you imagine if Pruitt was here this year, or if he was on our 2005 team. It sucks for him because he's got to play in Europe probably when he could have been a 1st round pick if we had some shooters. Sure he never killed it out, but he beasted inside and I really believe he would have passed it out if he trusted someone to MAKE A SHOT. And he wouldn't have been getting stripped as much if he didn't have a hard triple every time he touched the ball.

-Smak

[TheGame414]

You're blaming Weber for Brandon missing shots and making bad decisions?

[ILLsmak]

You're blaming Weber for Brandon missing shots and making bad decisions?

lol, "YEAH THAT'S IT."

That's not at all what I said, man. I'm blaming Weber for putting him in a situation where it's very unlikely to succeed and then punishing him for failure. By the way, he doesn't make any more bad decisions than McCamey but plays much better defense. People love to talk about DJ's decision making, but they don't realize that when he gets the ball it's either make a move to score or pass for a score.

Whatever, though... not worth arguing.

-Smak