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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by RaininThrees
    So what are you saying, exactly?

    What's the point of this?

    That knife murder rates will increase? Is that your argument?
    My point is that comparing the gun crime rate across countries are meaningless without the context of demographics, wealthy distribution and disparity, poverty levels, racial homogenity and a million other factors.

    If you took that stat at face value like most in this thread want to do with gun statistics you would have to conclude that the UK has a knife problem.

    The fact is that even if you subtract every gun murder in the US from the total murder count there are still roughly 6000 murders committed in the US vs roughly 500 in the UK.

    This points to a much larger socio-economic/cultural issue. Guns are not the problem, Americans are the problem.

  2. #62
    Extra Cheese LJJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Of course guns are available anywhere on the planet to someone willing to jump through the hoops to get one, but anyone saying criminals will always be able to get their hands on a gun is misunderstanding the situation completely.

    The difference is the degree of availability. In countries with strict gun control it's still possible to get a gun, but generally it's not possible or really difficult and rare to be able to do so on a whim. Not in America. In America anyone can impulsively get their hands on a number of guns within minutes of them desiring a gun, someone can undergo a violent psychosis and basically get their hand on a gun within minutes.

    Anyone arguing that this is not a contributing factor at all to the occurance and following severity of these type of random massacres, like bmulls, is a complete and total idiot. Now, there are good arguments for the right to bear arms and you can have a debate whether the benefits are more important than the negative aspects of lax gun control, but you can't have a serious debate like that with frothing at the mouth retards like bmulls.

  3. #63
    Meats Don't Clash RaininThrees's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by bmulls

    This points to a much larger socio-economic/cultural issue. Guns are not the problem, Americans are the problem.
    Don't disagree, necessarily.

    And if these "Americans with issues" have easy access to guns, relative to other countries? What happens?

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasheed1
    I dont understand why you keep referring to gang-related gun deaths as if they would fall under a different category..

    its still gun murders in the US
    Because the vast majority of gang related murders are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

    Banning guns would punish responsible law abiding citizens who enjoy hunting and target shooting while doing little to stop the majority of gun murders.

    Yes, I acknowledge that these mass shootings are often committed by young white middle class males with legal firearms. However in the grand scheme of things these murders account for a tiny fraction of the total murder rate. They are just the ones we see about. "17 year old black killed shot in Baltimore" doesn't make the news because it happens all day every day. White kid on a shooting spree makes the news.

  5. #65
    GIVEN NOT EARNED ripthekik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by bmulls
    This points to a much larger socio-economic/cultural issue. Guns are not the problem, Americans are the problem.
    Americans are the only ones in the world facing problems now? As someone in the other thread posted, people all over the world have problems and pressure. Kids in asia(japan, korea, china) go through tremondous pressure in HS, competing with thousands of other kids for 1 seat in an university. But what can they do? They don't have access to guns. The U.S. isn't the only country with people that have psychological problems, or face stress/pressure. People all over the world do. They just don't have access to guns.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by RaininThrees
    Don't disagree, necessarily.

    And if these "Americans with issues" have easy access to guns, relative to other countries? What happens?
    We need to address the problem, not the tool used.

    - Compile a more comprehensive registry of people with any sort of mental issues. The Connecticut kid had autism, the Aurora shooter was seeing a psychiatrist, the VA Tech shooter was deemed mentally ill by a court before the shooting, etc etc. Make it illegal for anyone with mental issues to own a firearm.

    - Make people liable for the crimes committed with their firearms. This kid never should have had access to his mother's guns.

    - Longer waiting periods.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by ripthekik
    Americans are the only ones in the world facing problems now? As someone in the other thread posted, people all over the world have problems and pressure. Kids in asia(japan, korea, china) go through tremondous pressure in HS, competing with thousands of other kids for 1 seat in an university. But what can they do? They don't have access to guns. The U.S. isn't the only country with people that have psychological problems, or face stress/pressure. People all over the world do. They just don't have access to guns.
    Even if you subtract every gun murder there were still 7000 people killed in the US in 2005. The average murder rate in the UK is about 500 people. We have a problem with violence in general, not necessarily gun violence.

  8. #68
    877-954-1893 MMM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by bmulls
    Because the vast majority of gang related murders are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

    Banning guns would punish responsible law abiding citizens who enjoy hunting and target shooting while doing little to stop the majority of gun murders.

    Yes, I acknowledge that these mass shootings are often committed by young white middle class males with legal firearms. However in the grand scheme of things these murders account for a tiny fraction of the total murder rate. They are just the ones we see about. "17 year old black killed shot in Baltimore" doesn't make the news because it happens all day every day. White kid on a shooting spree makes the news.
    I'm not sure many are advocating that, what I personally want to see is tighter regulations. The actual details of tighter regulations might be acceptable but it is going to take serious debate among lawmakers. Additionally the overall gun culture and guns as personal protection has to stop, the sentiment that it produces is overall negative to society.

  9. #69
    NBA All-star Rasheed1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by bmulls
    Because the vast majority of gang related murders are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

    Banning guns would punish responsible law abiding citizens who enjoy hunting and target shooting while doing little to stop the majority of gun murders.
    I see... I dont think we are talking about banning guns. I think we are talking about banning high powered weapons and large magazine clips.



    Yes, I acknowledge that these mass shootings are often committed by young white middle class males with legal firearms. However in the grand scheme of things these murders account for a tiny fraction of the total murder rate. They are just the ones we see about. "17 year old black killed shot in Baltimore" doesn't make the news because it happens all day every day. White kid on a shooting spree makes the news.
    ^this point makes it worse in my opinion..

    seems like Americans thinks it is acceptable to have the high level of violence as long as it is in minority neighborhoods. As long as it isnt little white kids getting blown away? there isnt really a problem.

    I think alot of people of color see it this way. If people looked at the black community/minority community and took the issues serious? we would be able to head off alot of problems before they hit mainstream white America.

    I shake my head when I see people on TV saying they are shocked and "this doesnt happen in my town".... "I figured we were safe here"

  10. #70
    Meats Don't Clash RaininThrees's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by bmulls
    We need to address the problem, not the tool used.

    - Compile a more comprehensive registry of people with any sort of mental issues. The Connecticut kid had autism, the Aurora shooter was seeing a psychiatrist, the VA Tech shooter was deemed mentally ill by a court before the shooting, etc etc. Make it illegal for anyone with mental issues to own a firearm.

    - Make people liable for the crimes committed with their firearms. This kid never should have had access to his mother's guns.

    - Longer waiting periods.
    Wow, that almost sounds like gun control legislation right there.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by RaininThrees
    Wow, that almost sounds like gun control legislation right there.
    I don't have a problem with reasonable and effective gun control, I have a problem with retards like ripthekik saying we should ban guns outright.

  12. #72
    GIVEN NOT EARNED ripthekik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by bmulls
    I don't have a problem with reasonable and effective gun control, I have a problem with retards like ripthekik saying we should ban guns outright.
    Are you *****ing retarded? Show me a post where I said that? In my post yesterday, I advocated gun-restriction, because banning guns is impossible in the U.S. and it will never be achieved, hence the talk is useless.

    You're retarded for thinking that restricting guns won't help decrease the rate of deaths in the US. You think it'd make no difference, because they'd just use knifes to stab people instead. This sums up your entire view point.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasheed1
    I see... I dont think we are talking about banning guns. I think we are talking about banning high powered weapons and large magazine clips.
    Less than 4% of gun murders are committed with rifles (including AR style rifles). The vast majority, over 75%, are committed with handguns.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vio..._United_States

  14. #74
    Meats Don't Clash RaininThrees's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Quote Originally Posted by bmulls
    I don't have a problem with reasonable and effective gun control, I have a problem with retards like ripthekik saying we should ban guns outright.
    I personally think that gun control can include a weapons ban on specific types of weapons. I'm on the fence with Hand guns, but at the minimum they should be extremely, extremely, extremely hard to buy.

    I live in Canada, am in my 30s, but I currently have absolutely no idea where I would have to go to buy a hand gun. No clue.

    Automatic weapons should be banned outright in my mind. There is no reason for a civilian to own an automatic weapon. None. There is no arguing this point.

  15. #75
    NBA All-star Rasheed1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man slashes 22 children near China school

    Less than 4% of gun murders are committed with rifles (including AR style rifles). The vast majority, over 75%, are committed with handguns.
    High powered weapons should be banned



    Quote Originally Posted by ripthekik
    Are you *****ing retarded? Show me a post where I said that? In my post yesterday, I advocated gun-restriction, because banning guns is impossible in the U.S. and it will never be achieved, hence the talk is useless.

    You're retarded for thinking that restricting guns won't help decrease the rate of deaths in the US. You think it'd make no difference, because they'd just use knifes to stab people instead. This sums up your entire view point.



    I think he's arguing just for the sake of it. His points are pretty incoherent and all over the place.

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