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Old 05-03-2007, 03:07 PM   #31
OneWay
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elementally morale
If there was ever a player playing alongside Kobe, who will be better off without him, it's Odom.

True.

Odom's stats without Kobe are like 19-10-5. I don't fault Kobe, it's just that they're a bad fit together.

Sometimes things just don't work, no matter how hard you want it and how much you try.

For some reason they never could kick it off together and whenever Odom was hot that's usually when Kobe's gone cold.

Odom's stats in LA are MUCH, MUCH, MUCH beter than Odom's stats in Miami if we take playoffs into consideration too but it's all about what Sky said.
They get stats, they don't optimize each other. They don't complement each other well.
That's why Odom looked better in Miami although his stats in LA are better.
My opinion on Odom aside, this is a reason enough why they must be broken apart this season.

Management needs to recognize that they were never a duo.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:10 PM   #32
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Odom's playoff stats in Miami

16.8 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.8 apg, 44.5 % FG %

Odom's playoff stats in LA

19.1 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 4.9 apg, 49.5 % FG
19.4 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 2.2 apg, 48.2 % FG
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:16 PM   #33
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

What the Kobe-a-holics won't tell you is the reason they don't fit. Odom is not a catch and shoot guy - he needs to get the ball in the right spot and work to get his basket...but KOBE ALWAYS NEEDS THE BALL IN HIS HANDS ALL THE TIME

So really the right players for Kobe to play wit are spot-up shooters who are also good defenders (because Kobe uses up too much energy over-handling and chucking to defend anybody).

The right team for Kobe is actually like the core of the old Jazz teams - Horn, Russell, Malone, Keefe/Foster. Stockton handled too much. These other guys were all good defenders who did not need the ball in their hands but could catch and shoot.

I don't know why one player really needs the ball in their hands all the time - seems counter to good basketball, but that is what Kobe needs. All ways are the queen's ways.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:23 PM   #34
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

So Kobe and Lamar not complimenting each other is all Lamar's fault??? The fact that LA is running the Triangle Post with both Kobe and Lamar not playing their optimal roles is Lamar's fault? The fact that Lamar is the only above average help-side defender on the team is his fault?

Laker fans. Gotta love 'em.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:23 PM   #35
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Starks
What the Kobe-a-holics won't tell you is the reason they don't fit. Odom is not a catch and shoot guy - he needs to get the ball in the right spot and work to get his basket...but KOBE ALWAYS NEEDS THE BALL IN HIS HANDS ALL THE TIME

So really the right players for Kobe to play wit are spot-up shooters who are also good defenders (because Kobe uses up too much energy over-handling and chucking to defend anybody).

The right team for Kobe is actually like the core of the old Jazz teams - Horn, Russell, Malone, Keefe/Foster. Stockton handled too much. These other guys were all good defenders who did not need the ball in their hands but could catch and shoot.

I don't know why one player really needs the ball in their hands all the time - seems counter to good basketball, but that is what Kobe needs. All ways are the queen's ways.

Pretty good analysis that I'd agree with.

I mean Jordan was the same way. He had Pippen, but Pippen didn't demand the ball or didn't need or even at times, look for the ball.

But look at ALL the other players around Jordan. They were all shooters or defender/rebounders. BUT...Jordan knew when to get them the ball and how to use them to make both himself and them better. He optimized their talents to benefit him, which in turn benefited them.

He didn't ask Horace Grant or Bill Cartwright to score points in the paint. He asked them to play defense and rebound and set a tone, which they did.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:25 PM   #36
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Starks
What the Kobe-a-holics won't tell you is the reason they don't fit. Odom is not a catch and shoot guy - he needs to get the ball in the right spot and work to get his basket...but KOBE ALWAYS NEEDS THE BALL IN HIS HANDS ALL THE TIME

So really the right players for Kobe to play wit are spot-up shooters who are also good defenders (because Kobe uses up too much energy over-handling and chucking to defend anybody).

The right team for Kobe is actually like the core of the old Jazz teams - Horn, Russell, Malone, Keefe/Foster. Stockton handled too much. These other guys were all good defenders who did not need the ball in their hands but could catch and shoot.

I don't know why one player really needs the ball in their hands all the time - seems counter to good basketball, but that is what Kobe needs. All ways are the queen's ways.

Odom is not a good catch and shoot guy and even when he has the ball in his hands he isn't agressive enough nor does he demand enough attention from any defense.

They tried with Kobe on the wing and Odom initiating but they felt Odom was playing out of position.
So they moved Kobe back to the guard and Odom to the wing. That actually sorta worked.

Odom isn't really good enough to demand double teams. That's the problem.
And when Kobe's handling you can leave Odom somewhat open because he doesn't have a consistent jumpshot.

But sure, why not put it all on Kobe? It's always him.

And if think Kobe handles the ball all the time then you clearly haven't watched the Lakers in a long time or you always have your ***** glasses on.
Kobe now usually handles the ball less than any other ball dominant swingman.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:28 PM   #37
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

lamar is #3 guy.. maybe man that do the dirty work...

best thing about lamar's game = versatile

if u say kobe's jordan, lamar's not pippen... someone else needs to be #2 man
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:29 PM   #38
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Does Kobe optimize Lamar's game? His teammates? How much of a leader is Kobe? His bb IQ? Leadership? Decision making?
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:33 PM   #39
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWay

Odom isn't really good enough to demand double teams. That's the problem.
And when Kobe's handling you can leave Odom somewhat open because he doesn't have a consistent jumpshot.

....
And if think Kobe handles the ball all the time then you clearly haven't watched the Lakers in a long time or you always have your ***** glasses on.
Kobe now usually handles the ball less than any other ball dominant swingman.

Why would Odom need to be double-teamed, from what I read, Kobe is double and triple-teamed every time he touches the ball...as a result, not only is 1 guy open but usually 2 guys are open. If Odom got doubled too - well, then you'd have all 5 defenders on 2 players...and that's just silly.

I watched the Lakers last night and the night before that and before that. Kobe always has the ball on 75% of Laker possessions - and when he gets it, he freezes it. He and Odom don't jibe because he needs the ball on 100% of Laker possessions.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:46 PM   #40
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Starks
Why would Odom need to be double-teamed, from what I read, Kobe is double and triple-teamed every time he touches the ball...as a result, not only is 1 guy open but usually 2 guys are open. If Odom got doubled too - well, then you'd have all 5 defenders on 2 players...and that's just silly.

I watched the Lakers last night and the night before that and before that. Kobe always has the ball on 75% of Laker possessions - and when he gets it, he freezes it. He and Odom don't jibe because he needs the ball on 100% of Laker possessions.
100% is a little strong but i agree with your assement, what the lakers need is a ball handler that takes the ball out of kobes and lamars hands and passes the ball to who ever is in the best position, early in the season that's one thing luke was doing well was finding both kobe and lamar or even who ever was at center, but somehow as the returned from their respective injuries they were never able to make the readjustment...
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:06 PM   #41
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

LAMAR ODOM aint sh!t
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:17 PM   #42
OneWay
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
So Kobe and Lamar not complimenting each other is all Lamar's fault??? The fact that LA is running the Triangle Post with both Kobe and Lamar not playing their optimal roles is Lamar's fault? The fact that Lamar is the only above average help-side defender on the team is his fault?

Laker fans. Gotta love 'em.

Who said it all his fault?
It's not.
All the guy said was that it doesn't work and the Lakers would have to sacrifice Odom because of it.

What's your theory why they don't work? I'd like to hear it.
I think I have a pretty good idea what you"ll say though...and I don't disagree completely.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:21 PM   #43
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWay
It comes from the most knowledgable fan on the internet IMO.
He's recognized as the best and most knowledgable poster on the Lakers web.

Anyway, what do you think about that assessment?

Just because someone likes the Lakers doesn't mean that they're the most knowledgable fan on the ****ing internet. That's a load of **** if there ever was one.

The dumb**** says that Odom delivers stats and not what's necessary to optimize Kobe's game. I think it's more like... Kobe delivers stats and does nothing necessary to optimize any of his teammates' play, let alone Odom's.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:37 PM   #44
Da KO King
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWay
Who said it all his fault?
It's not.
All the guy said was that it doesn't work and the Lakers would have to sacrifice Odom because of it.

What's your theory why they don't work? I'd like to hear it.
I think I have a pretty good idea what you"ll say though...and I don't disagree completely.
The problem is the Lakers run a Triangle post offense. The most important position in that system is the play-side low post. Neither Kobe nor Lamar plays well enough from the low post to stay there all game.

Once you move either of them out of that spot you are now depending on Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, or Andrew Bynum to run your offense. You are not going to win a title like that.

The problem with the Lakers is not that Kobe and Lamar can not function together (admittedly they would function better if Kobe played like he did at the start of the season). The problem is the team runs a system that majority of its players don't have the skillset or Ball IQ to be effective in.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:43 PM   #45
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon Vendetta
Just because someone likes the Lakers doesn't mean that they're the most knowledgable fan on the ****ing internet.


That's not what he said.

Quote:
He's recognized as the best and most knowledgable poster on the Lakers web.

That's what he said.
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