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Old 05-03-2007, 05:45 PM   #46
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

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The problem with the Lakers is not that Kobe and Lamar can not function together (admittedly they would function better if Kobe played like he did at the start of the season). The problem is the team runs a system that majority of its players don't have the skillset or Ball IQ to be effective in.
well said , i have been a proponent of them changing some aspects of the offense for some time now, even more vocal in the playoffs...

phil needs to look at his players and adjust the offense and defense for his players to succeed, he seems bent on turning lamar into scottie pippen when that is not his game, when you have a unique player like lamar that offers the mismatches he does you need to play into his strong points...
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:46 PM   #47
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

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Originally Posted by Da KO King
The problem is the Lakers run a Triangle post offense. The most important position in that system is the play-side low post. Neither Kobe nor Lamar plays well enough from the low post to stay there all game.

Once you move either of them out of that spot you are now depending on Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, or Andrew Bynum to run your offense. You are not going to win a title like that.

The problem with the Lakers is not that Kobe and Lamar can not function together (admittedly they would function better if Kobe played like he did at the start of the season). The problem is the team runs a system that majority of its players don't have the skillset or Ball IQ to be effective in.

That's a great post.

I really think Odom would be better without Kobe though. However, post of the day for me.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:48 PM   #48
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

In reality Kobe should be filling Scottie's role while Lamar is filling Horace Grant's. The problem is the Lakers don't have someone to be Michael Jordan.

edit - I'm talking about MJ during the second title run

Last edited by Da KO King : 05-03-2007 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:54 PM   #49
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

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Originally Posted by Da KO King
In reality Kobe should be filling Scottie's role while Lamar is filling Horace Grant's. The problem is the Lakers don't have someone to be Michael Jordan.

They have Jordan. Farmar.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:01 PM   #50
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

I knew you'd say that.

First of all, Kobe is Michael Jordan so he can't also be Scottie Pippen.
You want him to be the leading scorer who takes 25 shots a night and the initiator as well? Not going to work.
The ball would be in his hands too much and that's not how Phil envisioned it.
Kobe must be in the Jordan role, the role of a wing scorer.

As for Odom, I agree he's Horace Grant...only Horace had a much more consistent jumper and was a true PF. Big difference.

Odom is like Kukoc with less shooting ability, lower bball IQ, less playmaking ability but a better athlete and rebounder.

That's why I want a true PF to be a Horace Grant. I want Kobe to be a Jordan.
But Pippen? Can be anyone. Doesn't have to be a point forward.
Gimme a guy like Luke Ridnour or Earl Watson to be a Pippen.

It doesn't have to be the same exact Bulls model.

That strategy you described worked earlier in the season when they had that stretch of home games and apparently a momentum going into their favor as well.

You know, if only Odom could hit that mid range J consistantly..but he can't.
And I don't like the fact that he's a tweener.
I'd rather have someone like Horace or a prime Brian Grant, P.J Brown etc.

Odom in the end doesn't play like them. In the end he's far more ball dominant and a lighter player.

And that jumpshot of theirs is really a huge thing too. Odom doesn't have that. Defense knows that. That's why it's easier to defend.

Now, Kobe needs to be a Jordan but I so want to find a Pippen and a Horace, trust me. I want that badly.
Odom can technically play the Horace role and it's his best role but for numerous reasons, it still isn't the right thing. That's why I want a true PF with a jumpshot.
For example, I don't think I'd mind Mikki Moore with the MLE in case Odom gets traded for a SF like Lewis or Artest..

Once again, it doesn't always have to be the same model. Triangle can be adjusted to players.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:20 PM   #51
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elementally morale
That's not what he said.

No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWay
It comes from the most knowledgable fan on the internet IMO.

Back down.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:43 PM   #52
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

Sorry, but Kobe can not replicate MJ in that Triangle.

During the second Bulls run MJ play damn near the entire game from the low post. I don't have tons of tape from those games but I know a coach that said about 40+% of Mike's touches started in the post. Kobe is not as effective a scorer or passer with his back to the hoop as Mike was.

Kobe is at his best when he fills Pip's role. Pip was either the playside wing cutting off the post or the ball reversal option up top. He spent more time as the reversal guy up top.

When he's in that role Kobe gets better looks at the hoop cause he's forced to move and cut more. For Kobe, it gets more looks from the mid-range and more chances to drive to the rack.

For the team, it opens a lot of options in space on the weakside of the floor. Whether off or on ball screens for each other the options given to Kobe and Lamar would be incredible.

Imagine LA running a variation of the "Handback Lob" with Kobe being the cutter for the lob?!? It would give opposing defenses fits.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:47 PM   #53
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

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Originally Posted by Shogon Vendetta
No.

Back down.

Yes Sir! You're right.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:51 PM   #54
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

If Ray and Shard can win 52 games and take the Spurs to six games in the second round, there is NO REASON Kobe and Lamar can't do at least that. The difference is those Sonics had solid PG play(Ridnour/Daniels) and legit bigs(Evans, Fortson, Potapenko, James, Collison) along with some depth on the wings(Murray, Wilkins, Radmanovic). GET THEM SOME HELP MITCH.
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:34 PM   #55
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Default Re: Do you agree on this assessment of Kobe and Odom as a duo?

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Originally Posted by eliteballer
If Ray and Shard can win 52 games and take the Spurs to six games in the second round, there is NO REASON Kobe and Lamar can't do at least that. The difference is those Sonics had solid PG play(Ridnour/Daniels) and legit bigs(Evans, Fortson, Potapenko, James, Collison) along with some depth on the wings(Murray, Wilkins, Radmanovic). GET THEM SOME HELP MITCH.
The first step needs to be Phil deciding whether the team will keep the Triangle and if so assigning players the roles they truly fit.
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