The status of Best in the league is up for stake this year...do you agree?

[Mr. Jabbar]

If Durant didn't have Westbrook to take the pressure off of him. Durant would just be another Ray Allen.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Rose is EASILY a top 5 player in the league, and arguments can be made for top 3-4....

The fact DMAVS is going purely off stats is just...

And Rose not good in the clutch? You've got to be kidding me....him taking over and making crucial shots is WHY he's in the top 5 this year. Hell, he has the most gamewinning plays out of anyone this year at 4.

The ONLY players who you can have a easy time saying were better this year are Durant, Lebron, and Howard. NO one else have clear cut been better at all.

[Tenchi Ryu]

This is why heavy dependence on FG% is terrible for B-Ball conversations. Who cares what it was if both guys were able to contribute virtually the same thing to get the W. Why should it matter how efficient he was? Do you really think MJ cared about his percentages? Shooting shitty, or shooting magnificent, don't care as long as you get me the win.

That's why fans were better back in the day, too many people are focused on stats nowadays.

[All Net]

Rose is EASILY a top 5 player in the league, and arguments can be made for top 3-4....

The fact DMAVS is going purely off stats is just...

And Rose not good in the clutch? You've got to be kidding me....him taking over and making crucial shots is WHY he's in the top 5 this year. Hell, he has the most gamewinning plays out of anyone this year at 4.

The ONLY players who you can have a easy time saying were better this year are Durant, Lebron, and Howard. NO one else have clear cut been better at all.

Rose has been super clutch this year, that performance against the bucks was clutch as hell.

[guy]

This is why heavy dependence on FG% is terrible for B-Ball conversations. Who cares what it was if both guys were able to contribute virtually the same thing to get the W. Why should it matter how efficient he was? Do you really think MJ cared about his percentages? Shooting shitty, or shooting magnificent, don't care as long as you get me the win.

That's why fans were better back in the day, too many people are focused on stats nowadays.

DMAVS stats are all based on 5:00 left in the 4th and OT in 5 point games.

I can't speak for FTs but for FGs these are his stats with 3:00 left in the 4th and OT in 5 point games:

last 3 min: 11-25
last 2 min: 9-17
last 1 min: 7-11
last 24 sec: 5-7

shots to tie or take the lead:

last 2 min: 5-10
last 1 min: 5-8
last 24 sec: 4-6
last 5 sec: 2-3

That is VERY GOOD. By the way, his FG stats are 11-32 with 5 minutes left in 5 point games. That means he's 0-7 between 3 and 5 minutes in 5 point games. Clearly its a small sample size, and mostly an abberation given how well he's shot under 3 min left.

[Owl]

"The status of Best in the league is up for stake this year...do you agree?"

I hear that his facebook status is "Up for steak"

This is why heavy dependence on FG% is terrible for B-Ball conversations. Who cares what it was if both guys were able to contribute virtually the same thing to get the W. Why should it matter how efficient he was? Do you really think MJ cared about his percentages? Shooting shitty, or shooting magnificent, don't care as long as you get me the win.

That's why fans were better back in the day, too many people are focused on stats nowadays.

Won't speak for how it's being used here but do you honestly not believe that missing shots matters. That there isn't a correllation between making baskets (and not missing them and probably conceding possession) and winning games? Of course you don't care "if you ... win" but do you not think that winning has something to do with baskets being scored. If taken in small samples, for say clutch shots in one season then it could be misleading. I think there are better measures of shooting than fg% too which lumps together 3's with 2's and doesn't account for the higher value shot. But if you don't think shooting accurately matters (or that Jordan cared about not taking bad shots or shots that he couldn't make) well, I'd have to disagree.

[Tenchi Ryu]

It doesn't matter when the percentage isn't worthy of criticism. Like say, if someone was shooting 30% a night, yes that's bad. But when comparisons between players are solely made between a percentage of like 50% and the other like 46%, I think its completely irrelevant if both were heavy contributions to the win.

And basically, it turns into a shoulda coulda woulda game. "Well, if he was more efficient, it could have went this way", and stuff like that. And IMO, thats completely pointless.

[Owl]

It doesn't matter when the percentage isn't worthy of criticism. Like say, if someone was shooting 30% a night, yes that's bad. But when comparisons between players are solely made between a percentage of like 50% and the other like 46%, I think its completely irrelevant if both were heavy contributions to the win.

And basically, it turns into a shoulda coulda woulda game. "Well, if he was more efficient, it could have went this way", and stuff like that. And IMO, thats completely pointless.

Depends completely on context (number of shots taken per game, percentage of attempted shots taken that were 3s, 3pt fg%) but assuming all those being equal say it does make a substantial difference.
If comparing guys at the same position and with the above mentioned factors being the same, even if they were only taking 2's a 5% difference over 20 shots a game = 2 points over a game. With that advantage at every position the superior shooting team has a 10 point advantage.
For exactly how big a 10 point margin of victory is, here's all the teams that have achieved it over a season.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...&order_by=wins

So where do draw the line at % not being important?

[Tenchi Ryu]

So where do draw the line at % not being important?

When both players essentially accomplish the same thing. Perfect example in this case is Durant and Rose.

They virtually do the same thing, provide a huge offensive punch for their team, lead their teams, and can be depended on to provide crucial clutch plays. But you can't necessarily say one does it better than the other considering their teams are respectably in the same spot at number one in their conferences.

And then like you said, its even more flawed considering their different styles of play and different positions. A 46% Rose percentage is not made the same as a 50% Durant percentage. You have to put in the factors on how the shot was contested and stuff like that.

Like, if both Rose and Durant provided me 40 points and we got the win, why should I care that one was on 46% and the other was on 50%?

[Cowboy Thunder]

Brian, it's Toretto. It's always been Toretto.

[DMAVS41]

Rose is EASILY a top 5 player in the league, and arguments can be made for top 3-4....

The fact DMAVS is going purely off stats is just...

And Rose not good in the clutch? You've got to be kidding me....him taking over and making crucial shots is WHY he's in the top 5 this year. Hell, he has the most gamewinning plays out of anyone this year at 4.

The ONLY players who you can have a easy time saying were better this year are Durant, Lebron, and Howard. NO one else have clear cut been better at all.

He's missed 16 games and has done nothing on the court to put him on a different tier than players 4 through 9 this year.

SMH at clearly top 5. The only logical reason you could argue that is because of his teams record....but his team is 12-4 without him. LOL

He's anywhere from 5 to 9....like I said earlier. He is not definitive top 5 at all.

[Tenchi Ryu]

He's missed 16 games and has done nothing on the court to put him on a different tier than players 4 through 9 this year.

SMH at clearly top 5. The only logical reason you could argue that is because of his teams record....but his team is 12-4 without him. LOL

He's anywhere from 5 to 9....like I said earlier. He is not definitely top 5 at all.

Call me when other players bring their teams back up from 10 point deficits, and puts them in a position to win games....on a consistent basis. Wade was terrible before this month, CP3 was too passive, Kobe was shooting too much, and Love's record is not good enough.

Like I said before, Lebron, Durant, and Howard...that's it.
And you're clearly one of the few who don't think he's not definitive top 5.

And its terrible that you blame Rose on having good teammates...WTF? Just because he doesn't have to carry scrubs does not in any way hamper his ranking, which is what you're trying to do.

[Jotaro Durant]

between durant and lbj yes depend on playoff
sorry but not rose. he team format similar isiah thomas pistons and when he won ring and fmvp no one considered him best player in league. rose isnt on level as player as those 2.

[demons2005]

He's missed 16 games and has done nothing on the court to put him on a different tier than players 4 through 9 this year.

It's one thing to place him top 10 considering he's missed games but that is the only argument for top 10. Rose is clearly a top 3 player when healthy, he was the freaking MVP last year and this year he has matured. Durant has Westbrook and Lebron is well... Lebron, you can't count him in the last quarter, and he has Wade to do his dirty work. Of those three if theyre healthy I take Rose each and every time which by definition makes him the best player in the league. This season though I give it to Durant. The only other player who has a argument with these guys is Wade and he is kind of off and on, not consistent.

[chazzy]

And its terrible that you blame Rose on having good teammates...WTF? Just because he doesn't have to carry scrubs does not in any way hamper his ranking, which is what you're trying to do.

It's brought up when team record is used in player comparisons