What would a prime Bob Pettit, Bob Cousy and Jerry West be in today's NBA?

[MavsSuperFan]

So many people here seem to believe that Wilt and Russell would be 2 of the best players in todays league (a ridiculous assertion).

How do you guys feel about Bob Pettit, Bob Cousy and Jerry West? white players from their generation that were considered great. Personally I have doubts these guys would make an NBA roster today. And yet we are supposed to believe that Wilt and Russell would be MVP candidates today?

Wilt's stats were accumulated against slow white players of the 1960s. You really think he avg's above 30 any time after 1980? Russell's teams were like almost all HOFers, no wonder he won the titles.

Look greatness is different from being better than someone. People here confuse being greater with being better.

Eg. George Mikan is greater than david robinson and patrick ewing. But obviously they are much better players than Mikan.

Isaac Newton is arguably the greatest physicist ever, but the average university physics professor today, has insights into theoretical physicals Newton never imagined. They also understand all of Newton's knowledge. They are better physicists than Newton, but are not greater.

Wilt and Russell are all time greats, but they would not be above avg into the modern NBA. Guys like ewing and robinson would have eaten them alive.

[BoutPractice]

At their peak...
Bob Pettit would be the top PF in the league and a top 10 player. (But he wouldn't have been better than peak Duncan, Dirk and KG) His game translates easily: he's 6-10 with shoes, offensively skilled with a nice midrange jumpshot, and is a great rebounder.

Jerry West would be the best SG in the league (but he would've been top 3 facing peak Kobe or peak Wade, it's a transitional era for these two positions). Once again, his game translates pretty well to today's game: he has a freakish wingspan ala Dwyane Wade, underrated athleticism, is one of the all-time masters of a shot perfect for contemporary basketball, the pull-up jumper, which he can get off against anyone due to his quick release, and is a great free throw shooter. In addition, he's a well rounded player who contributes in many other areas, such as passing, rebounding at the guard position and playing passing lanes.

Peak Bob Cousy would suffer the most, as there's great PG competition and he's a poor shooter. He would rack up tons of assists but would have a poor field goal percentage and lots of turnovers.

Then again, I don't know why I'm answering the post of someone who seriously argues that the average university physics professor is a better physicist than Newton.

[riseagainst]

So many people here seem to believe that Wilt and Russell would be 2 of the best players in todays league (a ridiculous assertion).

How do you guys feel about Bob Pettit, Bob Cousy and Jerry West? white players from their generation that were considered great. Personally I have doubts these guys would make an NBA roster today. And yet we are supposed to believe that Wilt and Russell would be MVP candidates today?

Wilt's stats were accumulated against slow white players of the 1960s. You really think he avg's above 30 any time after 1980? Russell's teams were like almost all HOFers, no wonder he won the titles.

Look greatness is different from being better than someone. People here confuse being greater with being better.

Eg. George Mikan is greater than david robinson and patrick ewing. But obviously they are much better players than Mikan.

Isaac Newton is arguably the greatest physicist ever, but the average university physics professor today, has insights into theoretical physicals Newton never imagined. They also understand all of Newton's knowledge. They are better physicists than Newton, but are not greater.

Wilt and Russell are all time greats, but they would not be above avg into the modern NBA. Guys like ewing and robinson would have eaten them alive.

you cannot compare 2 players from 2 different eras without leveling out their respective capacity of skills/athleticism.

Saying that the average professor today is just as smart as Newton is stupid. You are comparing knowledge accumulated over time, which is not intelligence. What you should compare are their mental capacities, aka IQs.

As for basketball, you need to compare their ability to master skills and basketball IQs. Doing dunks and running fast are more relevant to today's era than in the 60s and are more the result of training than what makes a player truly special. Can't penalize them for things they didn't have access to.

[raid09]

you cannot compare 2 players from 2 different eras without leveling out their respective capacity of skills/athleticism.

Saying that the average professor today is just as smart as Newton is stupid. You are comparing knowledge accumulated over time, which is not intelligence. What you should compare are their mental capacities, aka IQs.

As for basketball, you need to compare their ability to master skills and basketball IQs. Doing dunks and running fast are more relevant to today's era than in the 60s and are more the result of training than what makes a player truly special. Can't penalize them for things they didn't have access to.

Well said. These guys were essentially discovering the game of basketball.

It's akin to looking at computer programmers in the mid 50's and saying, "Well shit! Those old guys were clearly less intelligent - they were still using punch cards on their computers. Our contemporaries invented the internet!"

[Pushxx]

You didn't know, but humans have undergone serious evolutionary advances in 50 years. Imagine 2050. We're gonna have 3 arms with 60 inch verts.

Just because Russell and Wilt were two of the most athletic players ever who were building the foundations of basketball doesn't mean they'd be better than JaVale McGee.

[COLOR="White"]jk...[/COLOR]

[Marchesk]

Well said. These guys were essentially discovering the game of basketball.

That's a bit of a stretch, as basketball was invented in the late 19th century. But, there was clearly a transition in the game from the 50s to the 70s.

It's akin to looking at computer programmers in the mid 50's and saying, "Well shit! Those old guys were clearly less intelligent - they were still using punch cards on their computers. Our contemporaries invented the internet!"

What they did actually impresses me more. They were programming on bare metal with extremely limited computing power and memory. They had to invent everything they needed. And it's not like they had books, help docs or online material they could refer to. So yeah, good point.

However, the internet goes back to the 60s. Actually, a lot of computing advances were pioneered back then or earlier. There was this conference of computer scientists that's called the Mother of all Demos which occurred in 1968 in San Fran. Douglas Engelbert demonstrated a mouse device, hypertext, video conferencing, word processing, and some of the features you see on Google docs (now Google drive). I've seen videos of the conference, and his stuff is way ahead of it's day, but of course primitive compared to what we have now. But the ideas were there. What he did inspired Xerox Parc, which later inspired the likes of Bil Gates and Steve Jobs.

[Owl]

Q1) Does it matter? Even slightly? Why?
Q2) Is there any way of knowing who is right or is it going to be meaningless between those who like, respect old players and those who don't?
Q3) How exactly are they going to be transported here? Or in other hypotheses how are present players going to go back to the 60s? Will they have different childhoods, nutrition and training? Will players going back in time suffer more racism?

And two sub-questions, though they're basically adjuncts to q1.
Is a players greatness diminished if we decide they wouldn't be as good today? and
To what end are we having this discussion? Is the purpose to see if specific players benefitted from innovations such as the shot clock, the influence of racial quotas (i.e. a point of some possible interest) or is it, as OP seems to suggest, about knocking legends of the game.

Dominance is what matters. If you want to punish older era players on GOAT lists there are some reasonable grounds on which you might justify doing so. But this sort of, "wouldn't Bob Pettit be rubbish today" ... well it seems a bit, pointless.

Oh and Cousy and West weren't the same generation. They played 3 overlapping seasons (plus one abbortive comeback for 7 games, 34 minutes). They were the same generation like Moses Malone and Shaquille O'Neal are.

[Marchesk]

Isaac Newton is arguably the greatest physicist ever, but the average university physics professor today, has insights into theoretical physicals Newton never imagined. They also understand all of Newton's knowledge. They are better physicists than Newton, but are not greater.

They have more knowledge, but if you brought prime Newton here in a time machine, and once he adjusted (that would be some culture shock), he would drop like 40 an 15 on these weak professors today ...

Newton would have the capacity to do more with the knowledge than university professors. Assuming that he could adjust to modern life. Just like Wilt would be able to do more with today's training, nutrition, stats and other advantages than most basketball players. Except that the transition would be a bit easier on Wilt, lol.

[Psileas]

Isaac Newton is arguably the greatest physicist ever, but the average university physics professor today, has insights into theoretical physicals Newton never imagined. They also understand all of Newton's knowledge. They are better physicists than Newton, but are not greater.

The average university physics professor has no insights that Newton couldn't imagine. And it doesn't matter that they understand Newton's knowledge (which isn't accurate, either, since Newton was an all-around talented scientist, he didn't specialize in one field like today's scientists do), since this knowledge is acquired by copying others.
Newton was an all-time level mind, he was greater AND "better" than the vast majority of physicists.
Better meaning that he could do more than the others when having the same things at his disposal.
Greater meaning that he did do more than the others.

Today's scientists have more studying material and that's it.

[MavsSuperFan]

Are people here really saying Newton knows anything about E=MC2, string theory, subatomic particles, etc.

Even what he is famous for gravity, we have recently learned a lot more about.





We now have a theory of why the plants orbit the sun and why the moon orbits earth.

obviously Newton is a genius, my point was only that being greater is not the same as being better.

I stick to my point that Mikan was greater than Ewing and robinson. Obviously Mikan would have gotten crushed by them.

Pettit, Cousy and West would not have been superstars today, they would be lucky to make an NBA roster.

Wilt and Russell would be average big men.

[Kblaze8855]

Ewing would eat Wilt alive based on what?

I believe Wilt had 25/20 first time he played Kareem. Kareem had numbers too but he didnt outplay Wilt. And wilt was on a repair knee, 300 pounds, and on his way down. Kareem was probably 22 and as athletic as he would ever be.

Kareem played Ewing the first time I think he had like 25/8 and the next time....he gave him 40 something and Ewing went I think 3-15 or maybe worse than that.

Kareem was like 37 or 38.

Wilt can play young Kareem as an equal...old Kareem was all NBA first team over Ewing.

But Ewing is a lock to eat a better version of Wilt than Kareem ever played alive.......

[WillC]

So let me get this straight. You think that Jerry West - one of the greatest shooters in basketball history, a phenomenal ball-hawk and defender, very good passer, and one of the most determined and rugged guards imaginable - wouldn't be able to play in today's NBA.... even though Steve Kerr won 5 championships in the 1990s/2000s? Even though JJ Redick is a solid player in today's NBA?

Right.

[CavaliersFTW]

Are people here really saying Newton knows anything about E=MC2, string theory, subatomic particles, etc.

Even what he is famous for gravity, we have recently learned a lot more about.





We now have a theory of why the plants orbit the sun and why the moon orbits earth.

obviously Newton is a genius, my point was only that being greater is not the same as being better.

I stick to my point that Mikan was greater than Ewing and robinson. Obviously Mikan would have gotten crushed by them.

Pettit, Cousy and West would not have been superstars today, they would be lucky to make an NBA roster.

Wilt and Russell would be average big men.

[branslowski]

Bob Petit would be ball boy in All-star game.

Bob Cousy would be a bench player in the D-League.

West would be a solid 6th man in the league.

[WillC]

I hope people take the time to read this quote from Hall of Famer Ed Macauley:

Ed Macauley: