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02-05-2015, 02:16 PM
#121
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Magic Johnson really saved Jabbar's career. He'd be thought of as an even more of a "can't win center" if Magic didn't come win him some rings.
1 ring in the parity filled 70's?
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02-05-2015, 02:22 PM
#122
Seething...
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Magic Johnson really saved Jabbar's career. He'd be thought of as an even more of a "can't win center" if Magic didn't come win him some rings.
1 ring in the parity filled 70's?
How many did Magic win without Jabbar? Right, ZERO.
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02-05-2015, 02:38 PM
#123
NBA Legend
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Magic Johnson really saved Jabbar's career. He'd be thought of as an even more of a "can't win center" if Magic didn't come win him some rings.
1 ring in the parity filled 70's?
^ truth
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02-05-2015, 02:54 PM
#124
Seething...
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
^ truth
The truth is, we can play these "what if" scenarios with any player. How many does Bird win without McHale/Parish? Does LeBron win ANY ring if he doesn't go to a super team? How many would MJ win without Pip? Great teams win championships, which is usually led by an alpha dog and then a second fiddle and sometimes a very good third player. Magic needed KAJ just as much as KAJ needed Magic to win.
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02-05-2015, 03:00 PM
#125
NBA Legend
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by ClipperRevival
The truth is, we can play these "what if" scenarios with any player. How many does Bird win without McHale/Parish? Does LeBron win ANY ring if he doesn't go to a super team? How many would MJ win without Pip? Great teams win championships, which is usually led by an alpha dog and then a second fiddle and sometimes a very good third player. Magic needed KAJ just as much as KAJ needed Magic to win.
I know we don't need what-ifs
Wilt most dominant ever
Russell winningest ever
My two GOATs where the least number of what ifs are necessary to explain their place. They accomplished the most.
KAJ and MJ next in line - for being in a sort of in-between zone with plenty of accomplishments in their own right.
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02-05-2015, 03:08 PM
#126
Seething...
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
I know we don't need what-ifs
Wilt most dominant ever
Russell winningest ever
My two GOATs where the least number of what ifs are necessary to explain their place. They accomplished the most.
KAJ and MJ next in line - for being in a sort of in-between zone with plenty of accomplishments in their own right.
I see it the other way around. To me, MJ and KAJ are the two greatest ever and then you have Wilt/Russell.
Russell lacked an offensive game. You couldn't throw the ball down the post to him and tell him to dominate via the post. And he also won most of his rings when the league only had 8 teams.
Wilt, as dominant as he was, didn't have much of a game from 15 feet. He overpowered you with his size and athleticism. And his playoff stats are unimpressive with his 22ppg
KAJ could do everything as a big. Probably not as dominant on the D end as the other two but he had the single greatest offensive weapon in history.
To me, KAJ and MJ, when you look at their entire body of work, are the top 2. From individual accomplishments, individual awards, rings and college (for Jabbar). Also, you have to consider their game/skills. They were about as complete as you can get.
I just don't see how anyone can rate Russell over Jabbar when Russell simply lacked a dominant offensive game. How can you be the greatest if you can't even dominate on one end of the court?
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02-05-2015, 03:19 PM
#127
... on a leash
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
I know we don't need what-ifs
Wilt most dominant ever
Russell winningest ever
My two GOATs where the least number of what ifs are necessary to explain their place. They accomplished the most.
KAJ and MJ next in line - for being in a sort of in-between zone with plenty of accomplishments in their own right.
Again, I already said this in the other thread..
what if we combine winning and dominance?
MJ/Kareem > Wilt/Russell, get over it.
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02-05-2015, 03:24 PM
#128
NBA Legend
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by ArbitraryWater
Again, I already said this in the other thread..
what if we combine winning and dominance?
MJ/Kareem > Wilt/Russell, get over it.
I could easily say combine them, and you'll still find Kareem and MJ don't add up to Wilt and Russell.
Kareem and MJ have what, 1/30th of Wilt's dominating records? So they aren't even remotely close to his dominance.
They have what, 2/5ths of Russell's championships?
They aren't a perfect blend... they are as high a blend as any 2 players have ever gotten, but they still don't stack up to Wilt or Russell's level. They'd still have quite a ways to go if they wanted to be a reasonable blend of Wilt's dominance, like they didn't even get close to it. And they also didn't get half way to Russell's winning success.
I didn't make this observation up either I heard it and am sharing this opinion from Sonny Hill, KAJ, and Rick Barry, the two players with the most stand out resumes that require the least amount of explanations at the top:
Wilt - if you favor dominating
Russell - if you favor winning
Last edited by CavaliersFTW; 02-05-2015 at 03:27 PM.
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02-05-2015, 03:26 PM
#129
NBA Legend
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by ArbitraryWater
Again, I already said this in the other thread..
what if we combine winning and dominance?
MJ/Kareem > Wilt/Russell, get over it.
When you combine all factors that go into GOAT: Dominance, Stats, Winning, Honors, Championships, Awards (MVPs and FMVPs), Jordan and Kareem have the best cases, in my opinion.
Russell can be argued if literally all you care about is winning and removing context, but Wilt has the weakest case of all GOATs.
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02-05-2015, 03:33 PM
#130
WIND DEFENDER
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Isn't most dominant ever another way of saying Emptiest Stats Ever?
Dominance w/o rings = empty stats
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02-05-2015, 03:34 PM
#131
... on a leash
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
When you combine all factors that go into GOAT: Dominance, Stats, Winning, Honors, Championships, Awards (MVPs and FMVPs), Jordan and Kareem have the best cases, in my opinion.
Russell can be argued if literally all you care about is winning and removing context, but Wilt has the weakest case of all GOATs.
Yep, not hard to understand either.. dude can't, won't accept it though..
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02-05-2015, 04:20 PM
#132
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
To answer the OP's question, Wilt has the better case for GOAT. He has statistical dominance that is unparalleled in almost every other sport. Kareem does not have the statistical dominance that Wilt has, nor does he have the winning dominance that Russell. He has a little bit of both, but not good as either in the respective areas. There is not one aspect of basketball that he is the absolute best at, other than longevity, and that is not GOAT worthy.
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02-05-2015, 04:51 PM
#133
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
When you combine all factors that go into GOAT: Dominance, Stats, Winning, Honors, Championships, Awards (MVPs and FMVPs), Jordan and Kareem have the best cases, in my opinion.
Russell can be argued if literally all you care about is winning and removing context, but Wilt has the weakest case of all GOATs.
Why do people keep saying this? Russell has winning, records, stats, and accolades. For some strange reason people think that statistical dominance only relates to scoring numbers as if other stats don't exist. There is no greater correlation between volume individual scoring and winning than there is between volume individual rebounding and winning. Teams with the league's leading scorer have had losing seasons. Teams with the league's leading rebounder have had losing seasons also. Teams with the scoring champion have won rings just as teams with the best rebounder have won several championships. For the record, Russell has won championships as his team's leader in points, rebounds, assists, and fg% in the playoffs. What else is a player supposed to do?
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02-05-2015, 04:56 PM
#134
NBA Legend
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by jlip
Why do people keep saying this? Russell has winning, records, stats, and accolades. For some strange reason people think that statistical dominance only relates to scoring numbers as if other stats don't exist. There is no greater correlation between volume individual scoring and winning than there is between volume individual rebounding and winning. Teams with the league's leading scorer have had losing seasons. Teams with the league's leading rebounder have had losing seasons also. Teams with the scoring champion have won rings just as teams with the best rebounder have won several championships. For the record, Russell has won championships as his team's leader in points, rebounds, assists, and fg% in the playoffs. What else is a player supposed to do?
Russell has the best case if you value championships (he isn't Robert Horry so don't get it twisted). If you value everything, his resume does NOT stack up to Kareem or Jordan's, who again, have the best combo of stats, dominance, accolades and honors.
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02-05-2015, 05:00 PM
#135
... on a leash
Re: Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ
Originally Posted by jlip
Why do people keep saying this? Russell has winning, records, stats, and accolades. For some strange reason people think that statistical dominance only relates to scoring numbers as if other stats don't exist. There is no greater correlation between volume individual scoring and winning than there is between volume individual rebounding and winning. Teams with the league's leading scorer have had losing seasons. Teams with the league's leading rebounder have had losing seasons also. Teams with the scoring champion have won rings just as teams with the best rebounder have won several championships. For the record, Russell has won championships as his team's leader in points, rebounds, assists, and fg% in the playoffs. What else is a player supposed to do?
What does this have to do with all around dominance against Kareem and Jordan?
Sorry, he DOESN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF ABILITY....
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