So what will be the perception of nowitzki if he doesnt win another ring?

[97 bulls]

Before last year. Dirk Nowitzki was labeled as a guy that couldn't lead a team to a championship. What happens if he never gets back or even never makes it back to the wcf?

Butler should be healthy and they aquired rudy fernandez. So they're better than they were this year. I believe this past year was a fluke. And feel the mavs won't even get back to the wcf.

[1987_Lakers]

Better than Pippen.

[AlphaWolf24]

all the white folks label him top 5 alltime...



book it

[jlip]

The way public perception seems to be is that when you lead a team to one ring you are forever labeled a "winner" (with only a few exceptions based upon insane biases). You can lose in the 1st round the rest of your career, but as long as you "proved" that you could win "the big one", the stamp "winner" is forever linked to you.

[Legends66NBA7]

Before last year. Dirk Nowitzki was labeled as a guy that couldn't lead a team to a championship. What happens if he never gets back or even never makes it back to the wcf?

Butler should be healthy and they aquired rudy fernandez. So they're better than they were this year. I believe this past year was a fluke. And feel the mavs won't even get back to the wcf.

Surprising thread, I wonder who this was for... but anyways I will explain:

He was an all-time great before he got a ring.

He was an all-time great after he got a ring, but with more people ranking him higher because what he did was amazing in that playoff run.

Does he get a "pass" for all of his previous other playoff failures? For the time being, yes, because he brought a title to a franchise that never had one before and it's winning tradition did not end up like that of the Utah Jazz of the mid 80's/90's Jazz.

If he does not win another again or get to the WCF, he will still be regarded very highly but any more hype about him will die down. Then, most NBA observers and critical thinkers can analyze his career accordingly when Dirk calls it a career.

[ShaqAttack3234]

He's already won a title, played in 2 finals, 3 WCF, played on three 60+ win teams, eleven 50+ win teams and been one of the absolute best playoff performers for the last 10+ years. He did all of that as hands down the best player on his teams.

It seems that Dirk finally got credit last year, but people have a short memory. Those that were saying Dirk wasn't capable either forgot 2006 or can grasp simple logic. You don't get as close as Dirk did in 2006 if you're not capable. He was clearly capable back then, he just didn't finish the deal. Being capable of doing something and doing it are two different things.

Even in 2003, he gets his team to the WCF and can't play in the final 3 games due to injury, I don't think he beats the Spurs regardless, but who is to say that he wasn't capable back then?

Even before the finals when Dirk was playing OKC, people were acting like he was doing something he never showed he could do before, completely forgetting about '06 when he was at least as good leading up to the finals. Nevermind the fact that he was playing out of his mind in the '09 playoffs.

In the past eleven seasons, Dirk has had a total of 2 playoff losses where he was really disappointing, the '06 finals and the much worse '07 upset vs Golden State. Because one was on the biggest stage in the finals and the next one came the following season after winning MVP, it seemed to completely wipe out everyone's memories of Dirk's great playoff performances and unwilling to accept his great play after that('09).

But now, Dirk shut most people up. You can't really take away from the guy. He won a title as the clear best player, played great doing so and led a team that most didn't expect to win. And people may be able to accept the decade of success that proceeded it as the franchise player(which few can match), his MVP ect.

That combined with the fact that he's really been a unique player and the most successful European player in the NBA will probably help his legacy hold up over the years.

It's hard to say how people view him, but I think that we'll see more people with him in the top 20 and he'll regularly come up in discussions for the top 3-5 power forwards of all time.

[Jacks3]

He was also shut down by T-Wack in the first round of 05.

[ShaqAttack3234]

He was also shut down by T-Wack in the first round of 05.

Yeah, I forgot about 2005. Impressive display of McGrady's versatility, shows how good he could've been defensively had he committed himself more at that end. Though Dirk won that series, I don't remember him playing all that well in the loss to Phoenix that same year.

[pegasus]

He already has accomplished enough to be considered one of the all-time greats.

As far as I'm concerned, he can go back to playing in Germany's second league for the rest of his career, and what I wrote above would still be true.

[DMAVS41]

Of course it was somewhat of a fluke that the Mavs won. That is what makes it so amazing....Dirk made that fluke possible. I find it so funny threads like this. Dirk is being compared all time to guys like Barkley and Malone....how come they never got a "fluke" title. The OP acts like its somehow a negative.

What is so funny is that Dirk has essentially been a capable first option since the 03 season. Like every player, he's had a few rough playoff moments and series....but the good far outweighs the bad.

Its just so interesting how Dirk is held to such a high standard. He played an awful series in 07. And wasn't "great" in the finals in 06.....funny how so many player in the history of the game have had far worse playoff moments/series. Guys like Bird, Magic, and Kobe have all had playoff struggles in huge moments.

The perception question is interesting because I'm curious as to why Dirk is expected to win titles and make deep playoff runs without the kind of help that most championship first options that have won titles have had. Dirk has never had the clear cut best team around him like so many other great players. Not to mention that Dirk is now entering his 14th year of his career....LOL at acting like the last 14 years haven't been the stuff of legends.

I'll flip the question around. How would Dirk be thought of if he had played the decade with the kind of talent and teams that Shaq/Kobe/Duncan had. Those guys played with better help and better coaching pretty much year in year out. What would Dirk's legacy look like playing with Shaq for 8 years and then a loaded roster another 4? Or playing for Pop and with Manu/Parker on those very good Spurs teams? How about Dirk playing on those Kings teams instead of Webber?

Dirk played in the era of shaq/duncan. Only 3 teams have made the finals from the west in the last 12 years. Mavs are part of that group. And each time they made the finals, they were huge underdogs to do it.

Now its expected that a past prime Dirk should lead a team with no other top 35 players in the game to another title? LOL....but the OP wants guys like Barkley and Malone and KG much higher all time....even though they never did what Dirk just did.

Makes no sense.

[NBAller]

the perception: he's a champion.

[FF1]

Kidd is 39.. Chandler might not be coming back.. Marion and Terry are a year older.

Chances of repeating are pretty slim. Dirk has made 3 WCF and 2 Finals and is a Finals MVP. Losing early in the playoffs next year (like Kobe and Duncan did this year) wouldn't tarnish anything.

[FF1]

Now its expected that a past prime Dirk should lead a team with no other top 35 players in the game to another title? LOL....but the OP wants guys like Barkley and Malone and KG much higher all time....even though they never did what Dirk just did.

Makes no sense.

This. For God's sake, this.

Dirk did what Barkley and Malone and KG couldn't do in their primes, yet they want him to do it again for good measure? The dude's a champion and his career has a body of work that goes along with that.

[HylianNightmare]

he will still be well regarded, because he will be remembered as the first to take down the dreaded miami heat

[brisbaneman]

This. For God's sake, this.

Dirk did what Barkley and Malone and KG couldn't do in their primes, yet they want him to do it again for good measure? The dude's a champion and his career has a body of work that goes along with that.

Repped!