Kevin Durant in the playoffs: 31.1 PPG, 9.5 Reb, 4.5 AST, 45.8% FG, 4.1 TO

[tpols]

Depends on the year.

Kobe was a great defender in 00 and early on, but after 02...he was not a great defender. In fact, he was nothing but slightly above average to be honest.

It's not trolling at all...Kobe being a great defender post honestly like the 01 season is one of the biggest myths in NBA history.

Kobe had one of his best defensive seasons in 08.. he was the vocal leader on defense that year and focused on it a lot more with the scoring burden lifted. 09 he was pretty good too, and in 2010 they switched him onto WB after he was torching them and Kobe put clamps on, they put him on rondo as well and he did a nice job. 08 though he was definitely a great defender..

Kobe's always been the one of the best defenders on his top defensive teams.. hes not a guy you have to hide or is going to get targeted for mismatches.. the opposite really. They were putting him on the teams best players or guys going off to slow the bleeding. Regular season RAPM stats dont show what he does defensively in matchups during the playoffs.

[lakerspng]

Depends on the year.

Kobe was a great defender in 00 and early on, but after 02...he was not a great defender. In fact, he was nothing but slightly above average to be honest.

It's not trolling at all...Kobe being a great defender post honestly like the 01 season is one of the biggest myths in NBA history.

He still shut down any player just about at will when he decided to. As the years went on, his focus on defense and his consistent effort towards it waned... but he was still one of the best defenders at his position through till about 2010. Since then he's given almost no real care towards it, probably because of the wear and tear on his body which is understandable.... and also the lack of respect he seemed to give players who weren't "on his level", giving them way too much space to cheat toward passing lanes.

But he won his 1st team defensive awards because game on the line, locked in, there was no better defender at his position for well over a decade. every coach who coached against him knew it and that's why they voted how they did for him all those times.

[Jacks3]

Those same RAPM numbers say Kobe was still a fantastic defender in 2010 (+1.2) but of course that doesn't support the agenda.

And since when was DRAPM a perfect measure of defense?

[Artillery]

Kobe had one of his best seasons under D'Antoni you retard.

To the detriment of his team. Froze out Dwight and Nash. That team was expected to win 70 games. Ended up being one of the most expensive and disappointing teams of all-time.

And they won like 75% of their games post all-star break until Kobe went down with the achilles tear.

They played the softest schedule in the league post all-star break. Beat the teams they were supposed to beat(lottery teams). Got raped by most of the playoff teams they played during that stretch.

The year they missed the playoffs with Hamblen and Rudy he missed like 20+ games due to injury and so did Odom (their 2 best players) and Butler wasn't the player he would go on to become.

One of the only superstars to miss the playoffs in his prime. Shaq missed 20+ games multiple times in his career and still carried his team to the post-season.

If Kobe "can't adapt" his playing style how come he's been able to win rings as a a supposed "sidekick" to Shaq and then as the go-to-guy of his own team?

Because of Phil Jackson(GOAT coach) and the triangle. Kobe's been a career loser and irrelevant player without PJax.

How come nearly all the All-Star level players that have played with Kobe have had their best seasons, or most successful moments playing with him? (Shaq, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Artest, etc.)

Dwight says hi. Glen Rice. Caron Butler. Payton and Malone were all-stars the year before they joined the Lakers. Nash fell apart after coming to play with Kobe.

Under the Princeton offense under Brown Kobe was off to the most efficient start of a season in his career.

Lakers lost every pre-season game that year and were 1-4 to start the season. Mike Brown ended up getting fired after five games. How the hell does this show that Kobe can adapt his game to other systems? You just proved my point. Kobe put up empty stats while his team lost games.

Just shut the f*ck up and actually watch/analyze basketball for once instead of just spewing out of your ass because of an agenda.

No agenda here. Kobe is no different than Durant. One got to play with Shaq/Gasol with the GOAT coach. The other got Chuckbrook, Ibaka, and Scott Brooks.

They're both similar one-way offensive players. They're inability to impact the game on defense is why we've seen both of them fail to make any kind of impact without a stacked team. Kobe couldn't make the playoffs and was a back-to-back first round loser without Shaq/Pau. Durant was unable to make the playoffs until Ibaka was drafted by the Thunder.

Meanwhile, Lebron is one of the only wing players to win multiple championships without a decent frontcourt. Why? Because he's able to impact the game on both ends. He doesn't need a dominant big.

[Artillery]

Those same RAPM numbers say Kobe was still a fantastic defender in 2010 (+1.2) but of course that doesn't support the agenda.

And since when was DRAPM a perfect measure of defense?

I'm talking career numbers here(14 year RAPM dataset). Over his entire career, Kobe's a net negative on defense.

[tpols]

Meanwhile, Lebron is one of the only wing players to win multiple championships without a decent frontcourt. Why? Because he's able to impact the game on both ends. He doesn't need a dominant big.

The Heat had a top 5 defense before bran.. they have a defensive minded coach. Theyve always been elite defensively.

And youre right he didnt need the frontcourt because he had Dwayne Wade.. who is better than a quality frontcourt all by himself.

[Jacks3]

1. We're talking about prime/peak play.

2. The DRAPM say he was still a fantastic defender in 2010. Do you agree with that?

3. DRAPM isn't a perfect stat

[DMAVS41]

Kobe had one of his best defensive seasons in 08.. he was the vocal leader on defense that year and focused on it a lot more with the scoring burden lifted. 09 he was pretty good too, and in 2010 they switched him onto WB after he was torching them and Kobe put clamps on, they put him on rondo as well and he did a nice job. 08 though he was definitely a great defender..

Kobe's always been the one of the best defenders on his top defensive teams.. hes not a guy you have to hide or is going to get targeted for mismatches.. the opposite really. They were putting him on the teams best players or guys going off to slow the bleeding. Regular season RAPM stats dont show what he does defensively in matchups during the playoffs.

That is why I said it depends on the year. I agree in 08 he played quality defense...but meh...you guys really over-rate his impact defensively. Have for years.

[Solefade]

Kobe led the lakers in field goal attempts in the regular season & playoffs for 2/3 of the 3peat years

Not seeing the connection you're trying to make

by 1 or 2 shots? but shaq had the ball more as evidenced by his FTA difference with kobes

[Cold soul]

Kobe's one of the best two-way players of all-time and one of the elite perimeter defensive players that is also an all-star/superstar (Aka not defensive specialists like Bowen or Battier who only have to focus on defense). Outside of Jordan, Pippen, LeBron, Payton there is no other perimeter All Time great you can name me that is as good on both sides of the ball as Kobe.

Kobe had one of his best seasons under D'Antoni you retard. And they won like 75% of their games post all-star break until Kobe went down with the achilles tear. The year they missed the playoffs with Hamblen and Rudy he missed like 20+ games due to injury and so did Odom (their 2 best players) and Butler wasn't the player he would go on to become.

Under Rambis and Del when Kobe was 18-20 years old GTFO. How many players out of highschool outside of LeBron had an impact at that age?


If Kobe "can't adapt" his playing style how come he's been able to win rings as a a supposed "sidekick" to Shaq and then as the go-to-guy of his own team? How come nearly all the All-Star level players that have played with Kobe have had their best seasons, or most successful moments playing with him? (Shaq, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Artest, etc.) Under the Princeton offense under Brown Kobe was off to the most efficient start of a season in his career.

Just shut the f*ck up and actually watch/analyze basketball for once instead of just spewing out of your ass because of an agenda.

[DMAVS41]

1. We're talking about prime/peak play.

2. The DRAPM say he was still a fantastic defender in 2010. Do you agree with that?

3. DRAPM isn't a perfect stat

Fantastic? No...I have his 2010 drapm at .4, but regardless...1.2 is not fantastic.

Dirk's was 1.3 in 2010 and he was absolutely not "fantastic"

Totally agree that drapm is not perfect.

[Jacks3]

To the detriment of his team. Froze out Dwight and Nash. That team was expected to win 70 games. Ended up being one of the most expensive and disappointing teams of all-time.

My God. Nash was 39 years old and playing with ****ing nerve damage. He missed 32 games. We saw how how completely done he looked in 2014 with no Kobe around. How can you possible pin that on Bryant?

[tpols]

That is why I said it depends on the year. I agree in 08 he played quality defense...but meh...you guys really over-rate his impact defensively. Have for years.

I have a question for you.. I know the RAPM data is only good til like 2000 or something. But I just looked and saw Gary Payton posted a negative defensive RAPM every single year from that year on while still being in his relative prime for a few years.


So was Gary Payton a one way player or a two way player?

[DMAVS41]

I have a question for you.. I know the RAPM data is only good til like 2000 or something. But I just looked and saw Gary Payton posted a negative defensive RAPM every single year from that year on while still being in his relative prime for a few years.


So was Gary Payton a one way player or a two way player?

When have I ever called Kobe solely a one way player? Well, I have about his recent years...but that has just been true like in 13 when he didn't even pretend to try defensively.

All I have ever said is that Kobe fans have grossly over-rated his defensive impact...which is a combination of ignoring how many plays he takes off and a misunderstanding of what kind of impact guard defense actually makes when it's not truly elite.

[Jacks3]

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/2010-rapm

Kobe actually had a +1.3 DRAPM in 2010, which is absolutely fantastic for a guard, especially one who playing 39 MPG, but anybody who actually WATCHED him play that season will tell you that he was easily better on that end in 09 and 08 even though his DRAPM wasn't as good. That's why only morons like Artillery take DRAPM as gospel.