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Old 04-19-2013, 05:11 PM   #46
Goldrush25
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Gezee
Always going to tarnish his legacy for me. I can't watch a guy who is probably the best player in the world, and probably the best pure basketball overall talent in history from a skill and physical standpoint...run to join a team that was going to be good enough to win with him or without him, when he had multiple other choices to join and could've joined other superstars/stars like Blake Griffin, Brook Lopez, Derrick freakin Rose, etc....and he joins 2 other superstar players including his chief rival...Can't watch that and be impressed by him.

I've played basketball, and the history of the game supports the fact that playing with good/great players makes you better. It's no accident that Lebron/Wade/Bosh are shooting career highs...teams have to cover you differently because of who you play with. It's no accident that Durant is shooting at a career high, playing with a top 10 player like Westbrook.

It's one thing if it happens sort of organically, but that's clearly not the case here. He simply took the easy way out, and that's fine, but don't expect me to respect your accomplishments as much as I do some other greats. Even his MVP trophy this year means less to me.

It's like if the Lakers had Shaq/Kobe and cleared enough space to pick up Tmac in like 04. It's not a knock on Shaq/Kobe, Tmac was the one to join and make things easy for himself to finally get over the hump.

I'm actually enjoying watching the Big 3 play, its fun for the league, brings eyeballs to the screens. However, don't read me this guy's stat sheet and tell me how he's everything for the Heat when 2 others have sacrificed to really highlight him, and a plethora of replacement stars could take James' spot and the Heat would be the favorite to win it all.

I can respect where you're coming from.

But honestly I can also respect where Lebron is coming from. You articulate well what a lot of people who hate the guy can't say, that the problem is that the Heat weren't assembled "organically." But to that I say, how many players can it really happen that way for? We've seen many a great players toil with underacheiving teams for years, chasing maximum dollar instead of moving on to greener pastures while they can still win. The "typical" thing for Lebron to do would've been to sign a max contract with Cleveland and continue on whatever course he was headed to anyway. We can say that he may have won a title in Cleveland but of course we have no way of knowing that. What we do know is that he has won in Miami.

If a star player is stuck with a second rate front office that won't or can't acquiese to the player's desires, the player either knuckles under and takes the money or he leaves town. We've seen players knuckle under for decades for whatever reason.


What if the Bulls never drafted Scottie Pippen? Does MJ still 3-peat? Probably not. What if the Lakers never got Kobe? Do the Lakers still 3-peat? It takes a hell of a lot of things going right for the "organic" process to materialize. Rarely it does, most often it doesn't.

Bottom line is work smarter, not harder. I get the hate for "The Decision." Completely self-indulgent, and I'd like to think he'd take it back if he had it to do again. But yeah, he did make the right decision. If winning is your ultimate goal, why wouldn't you put yourself in the best possible scenario to do so? It's completely counter-intuitive to do what some fans say is the "right" way to do things. Bite and claw for years to *maybe* win a championship when the stars align?? Stars don't stay in second rate organizations because they prioritize winning. They stay there to get top dollar.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:13 PM   #47
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSeba5
He did it the wrong way, but he had the right to leave. He was never going to win a championship there. His life and career is more important to him than what you people think of him.
That's always been the problem the How he did it. He's such a moron . He ruin his image by himself. Kobe had to rape someone in order to ruin his image and it wasn't as bad as lebron.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:14 PM   #48
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Gezee
Always going to tarnish his legacy for me. I can't watch a guy who is probably the best player in the world, and probably the best pure basketball overall talent in history from a skill and physical standpoint...run to join a team that was going to be good enough to win with him or without him, when he had multiple other choices to join and could've joined other superstars/stars like Blake Griffin, Brook Lopez, Derrick freakin Rose, etc....and he joins 2 other superstar players including his chief rival...Can't watch that and be impressed by him.

I've played basketball, and the history of the game supports the fact that playing with good/great players makes you better. It's no accident that Lebron/Wade/Bosh are shooting career highs...teams have to cover you differently because of who you play with. It's no accident that Durant is shooting at a career high, playing with a top 10 player like Westbrook.

It's one thing if it happens sort of organically, but that's clearly not the case here. He simply took the easy way out, and that's fine, but don't expect me to respect your accomplishments as much as I do some other greats. Even his MVP trophy this year means less to me.

It's like if the Lakers had Shaq/Kobe and cleared enough space to pick up Tmac in like 04. It's not a knock on Shaq/Kobe, Tmac was the one to join and make things easy for himself to finally get over the hump.

I'm actually enjoying watching the Big 3 play, its fun for the league, brings eyeballs to the screens. However, don't read me this guy's stat sheet and tell me how he's everything for the Heat when 2 others have sacrificed to really highlight him, and a plethora of replacement stars could take James' spot and the Heat would be the favorite to win it all.


Like someone either in this thread or another thread as mentioned, Dirk has done it with no superstars, but sure enough people started to hype Jason Terry up (look how he's doing now?) they hyped Marion up and just about every other role player to discredit the win, and Dirk. Sort of like what they're doing with Miami now. I can't think of a championship team that didn't either have A) the most dominant player in the league or B) a stacked team with at least two superstars besides Dirk and I THINK Olajuwon? but then again I haven't been watching the NBA since it started running.

Besides people are acting like the current Lakers, Nuggets, Thunder, Knicks are all cakewalks. They act like this is really just given to Miami. Someone in this thread already said "Miami wins, who cares?" ( I bet he was sucking Jordans dick though).

All that aside I still haven't seen one legitimate reason in this thread that would sway my opinion otherwise. How was this a bad decision? I'll wait.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:17 PM   #49
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrush25
I can respect where you're coming from.

But honestly I can also respect where Lebron is coming from. You articulate well what a lot of people who hate the guy can't say, that the problem is that the Heat weren't assembled "organically." But to that I say, how many players can it really happen that way for? We've seen many a great players toil with underacheiving teams for years, chasing maximum dollar instead of moving on to greener pastures while they can still win. The "typical" thing for Lebron to do would've been to sign a max contract with Cleveland and continue on whatever course he was headed to anyway. We can say that he may have won a title in Cleveland but of course we have no way of knowing that. What we do know is that he has won in Miami.

If a star player is stuck with a second rate front office that won't or can't acquiese to the player's desires, the player either knuckles under and takes the money or he leaves town. We've seen players knuckle under for decades for whatever reason.


What if the Bulls never drafted Scottie Pippen? Does MJ still 3-peat? Probably not. What if the Lakers never got Kobe? Do the Lakers still 3-peat? It takes a hell of a lot of things going right for the "organic" process to materialize. Rarely it does, most often it doesn't.

Bottom line is work smarter, not harder. I get the hate for "The Decision." Completely self-indulgent, and I'd like to think he'd take it back if he had it to do again. But yeah, he did make the right decision. If winning is your ultimate goal, why wouldn't you put yourself in the best possible scenario to do so? It's completely counter-intuitive to do what some fans say is the "right" way to do things. Bite and claw for years to *maybe* win a championship when the stars align?? Stars don't stay in second rate organizations because they prioritize winning. They stay there to get top dollar.


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Old 04-19-2013, 05:23 PM   #50
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBAller
Like someone either in this thread or another thread as mentioned, Dirk has done it with no superstars, but sure enough people started to hype Jason Terry up (look how he's doing now?) they hyped Marion up and just about every other role player to discredit the win, and Dirk. Sort of like what they're doing with Miami now. I can't think of a championship team that didn't either have A) the most dominant player in the league or B) a stacked team with at least two superstars besides Dirk and I THINK Olajuwon? but then again I haven't been watching the NBA since it started running.

Besides people are acting like the current Lakers, Nuggets, Thunder, Knicks are all cakewalks. They act like this is really just given to Miami. Someone in this thread already said "Miami wins, who cares?" ( I bet he was sucking Jordans dick though).

All that aside I still haven't seen one legitimate reason in this thread that would sway my opinion otherwise. How was this a bad decision? I'll wait.


that's not true at all, he got some hype due to some big shots like this

But nobody was seriously considering him to be a legit 2nd option to a championship team.. people also brought JT up a lot due to not only the big shots like i showed above but also because he outplayed (well, outscored Lebron in the finals and that was a big deal for a bench player to do)

So yeah, JT & Marion got some love due to big shots & in Marions case his defense on Lebron, but everybody realizes that these are not your typical 2nd & 3rd best players on a championship team
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:03 PM   #51
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Gezee
Always going to tarnish his legacy for me. I can't watch a guy who is probably the best player in the world, and probably the best pure basketball overall talent in history from a skill and physical standpoint...run to join a team that was going to be good enough to win with him or without him, when he had multiple other choices to join and could've joined other superstars/stars like Blake Griffin, Brook Lopez, Derrick freakin Rose, etc....and he joins 2 other superstar players including his chief rival...Can't watch that and be impressed by him.
You're stressing way too much on how teams are put together rather than what they are. Bosh didn't play a lot in their championship run. Wade wasn't himself either. So I would much more have preferred prime Shaq in one set than those two. I would have preferred McHale and Parrish in another set, and Kareem and Worthy in another set, Pippen and Rodman in another set, Westbrook and Harden/Ibaka in another set. They cover much more bases than Wade and Bosh. Lebron was competing against a reality of how things come to be rather than a basketball fan's conception of how things should be done.

The harshest reality is that either things get done or they don't. You can keep up with the world or get left behind. You either make your best decision or you don't.

What I find amazing is that Rose and Lebron were easily the two biggest competitors in the league. When a star player lines up across from them they are the only two you can count on giving an all out game. Pierce is close. But you guys who are so hard core against Lebron, I never see yall, talk about competition unless its to dog Lebron. I don't recall you as a poster so its not personal here.
Quote:
I've played basketball, and the history of the game supports the fact that playing with good/great players makes you better. It's no accident that Lebron/Wade/Bosh are shooting career highs...teams have to cover you differently because of who you play with. It's no accident that Durant is shooting at a career high, playing with a top 10 player like Westbrook.
Durant is conscious of his quality of shots. He usually follows Lebron's lead.

Lebron is playing a flat out quality game all over the court. Its real rare to lead the league in points in the paint and shoot 40% from three. Its rare to lead your team in all the major categories for three years and they win a great percentage of them. Its even harder when you say he has great teammates - there's a reason why nobody else has done that. His teammates don't make him the best all around defender in the game. His teammates don't make him a sound decision maker. If you choose not to see quality its on you. Don't blame his decision. A true fan wouldn't let that get in the way anymore than realizing that there are dynasties in the sport.

Quote:
It's like if the Lakers had Shaq/Kobe and cleared enough space to pick up Tmac in like 04. It's not a knock on Shaq/Kobe, Tmac was the one to join and make things easy for himself to finally get over the hump.

I'm actually enjoying watching the Big 3 play, its fun for the league, brings eyeballs to the screens. However, don't read me this guy's stat sheet and tell me how he's everything for the Heat when 2 others have sacrificed to really highlight him, and a plethora of replacement stars could take James' spot and the Heat would be the favorite to win it all.
Curious, do you feel that way about the current Lakers?
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:10 PM   #52
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Net
He would never of won anything with that roster...

That's not what all the ESPN experts, Cavs/LeBron fanbase and LeBron James himself were saying.






"Itís also important to me to make the team Iím on now the best," says James about his Cavaliers team. "I donít want to go "Ring - Chasing" as I call it, you know. Going to a team thatís already pretty established and trying to win a ring with them. I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion. And I feel like weíre on our way." -LeBron James

Re: Shaq to the Cavs..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebron23
Cavs are going to win the NBA Championship next year.


Quote:
Great trade for the cavs, I think this is the missing piece they needed to get the championship, they just needed someone to hold their own down low, and take some pressure of lebron for easy buckets all the time...big Z is too soft, and Verejao is not strong enough although try as he might to contest with the lakers, celtics or magic bigs, shaq is a champion, and will lift another cog come finals time like he has many times before...Provided shaq is healthy in the finals, Cavs win championship, Im a bulls fan, I have no bias here, I just say it how it is...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingwillball
Cavs will still add another piece or two to Shaq and a year better lebron. If everyone is healthy Cavs will win it all next year..book it.

Quote:
Cavs are already favourites for next year now they have shaq I think

Shaq is still a dominate big, you still have to double him unless you have a top notch centre (Yao or Dwight)

Then you have Lebron, nuff said, and a third option of mo williams

Quote:
Shaq+Lebron on the same team=championship. A dominant post player is the missing piece in the puzzle for Cavs.

Quote:
Cavs were a top 4 team this year with a horrible Frontcourt and if U add the Greatest Center of all time who is past his prime but still a top 5 Center in the league who can gaurd Howard,Bynam Ect.. to a year better Lebron and probably another addition via MLE Cavs would be in great Shape as long as everyone is healthy.

Re: Cavs close to trading for Antawn Jamison?
Quote:
If we acquire Antawn Jamison without trading JJ Hickson the Cavs are going to be the team to beat in the NBA.

Danny Ferry for NBA General Manager of the Year.

Quote:
Oh shit Cleveland is the clear favorite now, will the Wizards buy out Z so he can return to the Cavs?

Quote:
The tools are there now Lebron....

Shaq
Jamison
Lebron
Parker
Williams

Bench:
Hickson
West
Gibson
Telfair
Varejao
Z
Powe (coming back from injury)

WOW...deepest team in the league? Cavs-Lakers will be epic.

Quote:
if Z gets bought out, then its over, this team will be completely stacked, the second unit alone is fkn scary, telfair jawad williams jamario moon hickson and Z, very young team cept for Z. im just worried now that the cavs are too stacked, if anyone understands that.

Quote:
Wow! Cavs are a much better team now with Jamison and they didn't have to give up Hickson. I was hoping the Cavs get Amare so he can screw them over. With Jamison, he can fit into any team perfectly so he won't have any trouble fitting in the Cavs in the mid-season. And just as I thought Ferry was a retarded GM, he's looking like the executive of the year already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
The Cavs made off like bandits

Congrats to Lebron on MVP (and scoring title?) # 2, and championship (and finals MVP) #1

Quote:
Cavs officially the team to beat in the East and Maybe the NBA. They are sooo deep wonder who will be losing out on minutes ?

Quote:
With Jamison on board, the Cavs have the best roster in the East, and they should win the championship.

Plus, LBJ now has the second player he needs in AJ, and the other guys can now play their proper roles of being 3rd, 4th or 5th options.

Getting Jamison may even help the Cavs keep Shaq next year, at a reduced rate.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #53
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Ne 1 I agree with what you posted...people did believe the hype and thought because those players came up big in the regular season and won so many games which is why they were favourites against teams they had no business being favourites against.

Magic for one killed them in their main weaknesses. Mo Williams was an all-star that one year due to how well he played in the regular season but a team of one superstar and role players isn't getting it done vs better balanced teams. It's why people do get things confused with regular season and playoff basketball.

Jamison for one people saw his very good stats on a bad team and thought it would carry over and didn't.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:19 PM   #54
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

"It’s also important to me to make the team I’m on now the best," says James about his Cavaliers team. "I don’t want to go "Ring - Chasing" as I call it, you know. Going to a team that’s already pretty established and trying to win a ring with them. I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion. And I feel like we’re on our way." -LeBron James

OMG! That's too delicious, it's gotta be fattening!
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:33 PM   #55
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasus
"Itís also important to me to make the team Iím on now the best," says James about his Cavaliers team. "I donít want to go "Ring - Chasing" as I call it, you know. Going to a team thatís already pretty established and trying to win a ring with them. I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion. And I feel like weíre on our way." -LeBron James

OMG! That's too delicious, it's gotta be fattening!

Meh, you never said stupid things when you were younger?

Guy had a lot of confidence in himself. But there have been plenty of great stars that never won a damned thing, because they thought they could will teams to championships by themselves. Doesn't work like that. Even the best (MJ) needed help.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:53 PM   #56
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasus
"Itís also important to me to make the team Iím on now the best," says James about his Cavaliers team. "I donít want to go "Ring - Chasing" as I call it, you know. Going to a team thatís already pretty established and trying to win a ring with them. I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion. And I feel like weíre on our way." -LeBron James

OMG! That's too delicious, it's gotta be fattening!

You say stupid stuff on a daily basis and you're supposed to be a "grown man". Dan Gilbert, their owner, said Cavs would win a championship before Lebron would. I don't see people bringing that up all the time.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:55 PM   #57
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne 1
That's not what all the ESPN experts, Cavs/LeBron fanbase and LeBron James himself were saying.

The ESPN "experts" were also saying Lakers would dominate...
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:20 PM   #58
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

ya it's sorta like how ewing went to the bulls to win. oh wait, that didn't happen.

lebron gets no respect.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:34 PM   #59
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Clearly it's easier to win a Championship with Wade and Bosh. But his success is not as meaningful as it would have been had he managed to do it in Cleveland.

Kobe's titles are also not as meaningful. He did it with prime Shaq, prime Pau, and the GOAT coach. It would have been meaningful had he won a title without either of those 3 but we all know what happened (lost in the first round, missed the playoffs, lost in the first round again... then demanded to be traded).

Same with KG's, PP, and Allen's. They only won after teaming up and couldn't do it by themselves.

LBJ was the only one who reached the Finals with a scrub team.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:50 PM   #60
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Default Re: LeBron's decision was a smart one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
He could have beat Boston had he played anywhere near his usual level after getting the 2-1 lead, and they would have matched up better with Orlando than they had the previous year, but Cleveland did not look like they were in a great position to win titles after 2010, much less a lock.

Look at the 2010 team, Shaq was 38 and would be 39 the next season, Z and Anthony Parker were 35 and Jamison was 34. Those were 4 of their rotation players from 2010. They tried building around Lebron with veterans, and did contend for 2 seasons, but those players barely had any time left. Cleveland had struck out pretty much every time they tried to get one of the big free agents and as long as they had Lebron, they were going to be too good to get a lottery pick.

Saying he definitely would have won a few is a strange assumption considering it didn't look like they were going to be better than they had been in '09 and '10.

The bitched out thing is ridiculous as well. He played out his contract, had a ton of suitors, and picked what he thought was the best situation. That's the whole point of free agency. He earned his ring as much as anyone with the level he played at last season.


- Totally disagree...they also had great young talent in Hickson and Varajeo....

- They had solid role players and great perimeter play.

- again, they were great enough to win 60+ games 2 years traight....mainly due to the teams great defense and rebounding ..

( and of course Lebron James all world play)...but the Cleveland team had good young talent who knew how to rebound and play great defense.

- remember the Heat lost to a Mavs team that was really old!....and basically just upgraded to a above average defensive minded center.( Chandler)


- no doubt the Cavs break through once Lebron expanded his overall game ( like he did in 12')

- also ...saying he " played out his contract.....and just went to the best situation" is silly.....and gives no pulse to what everyone really thought of teh situation.

- In what situation does the hometown kid leave his hometown team/fans after winning 66 and 61 games....( MVP....plays in the finals a few years before.....has teh best record in the league....)...and says it's not a great situation????

it was a great situation.....leaving a 61 win team.....and saying you are never going to win is F'ing CRAZY!
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