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Old 06-08-2014, 07:53 PM   #1
nba_55
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Default Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to lose in the finals?
If yes, i d like to hear their arguments on that.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Losing in the finals hurts your legacy

Hell no losing in finals is better


losing b4 doesnt really hurt your legacy

u get no trophy 4 2nd place
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

The argument is that if you make the Finals, you (you being the franchise player, here) had a supporting cast good enough to get that far (especially considering ECF/WCF are approximately as good as Finals opponents, since you're facing the best team in your conference, and the best team in the other conference), so the loss is on you. Not your supporting cast.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aboss4real24
Losing in the finals hurts your legacy

Hell no losing in finals is better


losing b4 doesnt really hurt your legacy

u get no trophy 4 2nd place

explain why losing the finals hurt you legacy and losing before it doesnt hurt it?
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
The argument is that if you make the Finals, you (you being the franchise player, here) had a supporting cast good enough to get that far (especially considering ECF/WCF are approximately as good as Finals opponents, since you're facing the best team in your conference, and the best team in the other conference), so the loss is on you. Not your supporting cast.

If you make the 1st round, you had a supporting cast good enough to get that far... If you make the 2nd round, you had a supporting cast good to get that far....

The same logic could work for each round.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

This isn't to say I necessarily agree (though I don't necessarily disagree, either). There are some other factors coming into play:

ECF/WCF opponent might be a terrific matchup stylistically, while your Finals opponent could be a horrible matchup
your conference could suck (i.e. 80s West, 00s East, etc.), so a great player could fluke his way to the Finals on talent alone if the team is built around him
you might have HCA in the ECF/WCF and not in the Finals
you might just run into a wall, and face an all-time great opponent in the Finals
your teammates (role players in particular) might not produce as much/play as well in the Finals as they did in the ECF/WCF
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:02 PM   #7
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
The argument is that if you make the Finals, you (you being the franchise player, here) had a supporting cast good enough to get that far (especially considering ECF/WCF are approximately as good as Finals opponents, since you're facing the best team in your conference, and the best team in the other conference), so the loss is on you. Not your supporting cast.

That is the argument but it is specious. One, what if someone's player helped a team overachieve to get to the Finals, like the 07' Cavs did? Would it be better for Lebron's legacy in bizarro world if they lost in the ECF as expected? Moreover, what about numerous instances of teams that were title contenders that failed to reach the Finals? Every year there are 4-6 legitimate title contenders; only 2 can make the Finals. Under the bizarre argument that you mentioned, LeBron losing in the Finals is worse than Durant losing in the WCF even though both had title contenders (and OKC actually had the better record) and the same seed. That is why that argument makes no sense. Another example:according to this it was better for Magic to lose in the WCSF in the first post-KAJ year despite having the league's best record than Kareem losing in Game 7 of the Finals in 74'.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nba_55
If you make the 1st round, you had a supporting cast good enough to get that far... If you make the 2nd round, you had a supporting cast good to get that far....

The same logic could work for each round.
Nope, because those team were not the best in their conference (unless you're a very low seed and upset a 1-2 seed early on, and face a weaker opponent in the Finals). Teams are seeded within their conferences, so you'll face two quality opponents at a minimum (ECF/WCF and Finals).
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
That is the argument but it is specious. One, what if someone's player helped a team overachieve to get to the Finals, like the 07' Cavs did? Would it be better for Lebron's legacy in bizarro world if they lost in the ECF as expected? Moreover, what about numerous instances of teams that were title contenders that failed to reach the Finals? Every year there are 4-6 legitimate title contenders; only 2 can make the Finals. Under the bizarre argument that you mentioned, LeBron losing in the Finals is worse than Durant losing in the WCF even though both had title contenders (and OKC actually had the better record) and the same seed. That is why that argument makes no sense. Another example:according to this it was better for Magic to lose in the WCSF in the first post-KAJ year despite having the league's best record than Kareem losing in Game 7 of the Finals in 74'.
As I said in my second post, I don't necessarily agree. Just wanted to state the argument.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
That is the argument but it is specious. One, what if someone's player helped a team overachieve to get to the Finals, like the 07' Cavs did? Would it be better for Lebron's legacy in bizarro world if they lost in the ECF as expected? Moreover, what about numerous instances of teams that were title contenders that failed to reach the Finals? Every year there are 4-6 legitimate title contenders; only 2 can make the Finals. Under the bizarre argument that you mentioned, LeBron losing in the Finals is worse than Durant losing in the WCF even though both had title contenders (and OKC actually had the better record) and the same seed. That is why that argument makes no sense.

That argument is really dumb. The ''you had a good enough supporting cast to reach the finals'' logic could be used for each round. You could also say he had a good enough supporting cast to reach the 1st round, then, you should have gotten to the 2nd round.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
Nope, because those team were not the best in their conference (unless you're a very low seed and upset a 1-2 seed early on, and face a weaker opponent in the Finals). Teams are seeded within their conferences, so you'll face two quality opponents at a minimum (ECF/WCF and Finals).

So, it hurts your legacy to lose against the best teams, but it doesnt hurt it if you lose against weaker teams
Unless this is not what you meant...
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Damage control bran bout to go 2/5 in the finals

No just getting there is the main thing, good job good effort
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by coin24
Damage control bran bout to go 2/5 in the finals

No just getting there is the main thing, good job good effort

I knew someone would mention Jordan, Lebron or Kobe.
We cant have a thread without them.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nba_55
Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to lose in the finals?
If yes, i d like to hear their arguments on that.

hi livinglegend. your typing gave it away. ;)
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Do some people actually believe that it s better to lose before the finals than to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nba_55
So, it hurts your legacy to lose against the best teams, but it doesnt hurt it if you lose against weaker teams
Unless this is not what you meant...
Again, I don't necessarily agree with it. See my second post in the thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
This isn't to say I necessarily agree (though I don't necessarily disagree, either). There are some other factors coming into play:

ECF/WCF opponent might be a terrific matchup stylistically, while your Finals opponent could be a horrible matchup
your conference could suck (i.e. 80s West, 00s East, etc.), so a great player could fluke his way to the Finals on talent alone if the team is built around him
you might have HCA in the ECF/WCF and not in the Finals
you might just run into a wall, and face an all-time great opponent in the Finals
your teammates (role players in particular) might not produce as much/play as well in the Finals as they did in the ECF/WCF
if you lose early on, unless you're losing to a lower seed, you're generally just outmatched. If you win the conference finals, that means one of two things:

1) You beat the "best" team in your conference.
2) Your team is so far ahead of the rest of your conference, that making it to the Finals was a mere formality.

Regardless, the narrative is then such that you had enough to get through your conference, so you should be able to beat the best team in the other conference.
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