Winston Churchill's views on Islam

[Nick Young]

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.


The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property—either as a child, a wife, or a concubine—must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science—the science against which it had vainly struggled—the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/u...oday-than-ever

Many have called Churchill the GOAT Briton. How do you feel about his description of Islam?

[imdaman99]

rent free

[Nick Young]

Do you believe that Churchill's words are an accurate description of the dangers of Islam?

[Patrick Chewing]

rent free

You can't even dispute these facts so why bother replying?

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

rent free

Yeah Nick seems to want to convert really bad but no Imam nearby.

His description?

Fearful fatalistic apathy? If anything it calls for a deeper engagement with life as every action you do reverbates to either uplift or descend. The Last Day discusses that every ounce of good will be recorded as well as every ounce of evil and we all know every single bit counts.

Mohammedan law that every women belongs to a man?
Why on Earth would the same guy WHO GAVE women rights to inheritance, status, in 622 Arabia, and stopped the burying of daughters at that time REPEAL that stuff ... UNLESS clergymen (like Christianity) have hijacked the faith and made it a disgraceful shell of what it was meant to be.

Agreed with Churchill on behalf of the slavery part. But among the best deeds one can do is "free a slave" which is hand in hand with being there for the sick or feeding/clothing orphans and the needy.



Well for starters, his criticism is pale compared to what I see implemented.
- Slovenly habits? You're SUPPOSED to get up at the crack of dawn and pray 5 times a day and laboring is a form of habit. A sizable portion of leisure and recreational activities available in America are forbidden to Muslims.
- Sluggish Commerce? This is true. Maybe they can implement The Wolf on Wall Street's principles
- Insecurity of Property? Indeed. People ought to really really curb their "thievery when no ones looking impulses" and have faith in the honor of their fellow man. I hope that everyones grateful enough for what little they have and possess enough taqwa in that stealing ain't worth it.

Partially right partially wrong, and mostly missing the point.

Churchill gets an A in defending Britain against Nazi, making smart quips, and being a likable dude.. dunno why you woul quote him Nick.

Probably a D+. 2 of them are solid points rest are meh at best.

Post Hitler and Neitzsches now!

[Nick Young]

Yeah Nick seems to want to convert really bad but no Imam nearby.

Islam is a corrupted knock-off offshoot version of my current origin. Why would I want to be part of the cheap-knock off when I'm already following the original version that doesn't encourage people to kill infidels?

Islam is basically a violent sect of corrupted Judaism and Christianity in my eyes.


Islam is to Judaism what Mormonism is to Christianity.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Islam is a corrupted knock-off offshoot version of my current origin. Why would I want to be part of the cheap-knock off when I'm already following the original version that doesn't encourage people to kill infidels?

Islam is basically a violent sect of corrupted Judaism and Christianity in my eyes.

I dunno ? But it seems to dominate your thoughts?

[imdaman99]

You can't even dispute these facts so why bother replying?

I don't read more than 2 sentences of nick young posts anymore. He's lost my attention. He should start his posts with a tl;dr bullet.

[BasedTom]

churchill is overrated

[Nick Young]

I don't read more than 2 sentences of nick young posts anymore. He's lost my attention. He should start his posts with a tl;dr bullet.

tl;dr
[LIST][*]Islam is to Judaism what Mormonism is to Christianity.[/LIST]

[Nick Young]

I dunno ? But it seems to dominate your thoughts?

When Muslims start murdering and attacking innocent people in the name of their religion, yes, it dominates my thoughts. I constantly wonder how a religion can claim to be one of peace when it's founder promoted war and violence and even wrote this encouragement in his holy book.

I do struggle to make sense of this. I don't want to dislike Islam, I want to think of it as any other religion like Buddhism or Sikhism, but because of the violent actions of its followers and founder, I can't help but think that Islam is a religion that has a negative benefit on humanity as a whole.

[sundizz]

No, lack of education, food, etc are what makes people dangerous. Not religion by itself. The vast majority of well fed, well educated people with options for job and a life of their choosing aren't people that try to bring terror down on others. It is people that have no life options, no world perspective, no education etc.

A terrorist is such an inflammatory word for what these people are. They are just gangs. There is no difference. Gangs generally form for the same reasons - no options growing up and get sucked into that life. Both are bad for society and the only true way to combat it is to make sure the next generation is better educated, more exposed to world views, etc. If you read about teenagers in NKorea you'll understand this. They access the internet and know what's going on in the world. When this generation is gone and that 10 year old is 50 the world will be a different place. Stop hyperbolizing the situation. You are as bad as the media.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...proves-it.html
But one possible explanation arises from the data: Greater socioeconomic inequality is correlated with higher homicide rates, and Muslim societies have comparatively low levels of inequality. The regions with the most murder, Latin America and southern Africa, also have the highest values on the so-called Gini score, the statistic that economists and political scientists use to measure class inequality. High economic inequalities (which is what a high Gini score indicates) and high murder rates go together. Statistical analysis shows that countries with proportionately larger Muslim populations have lower Gini scores and lower murder rates.

[NumberSix]

No, lack of education, food, etc are what makes people dangerous. Not religion by itself. The vast majority of well fed, well educated people with options for job and a life of their choosing aren't people that try to bring terror down on others. It is people that have no life options, no world perspective, no education etc.

Guess again.

Take a look at the key players in these terror organizations. You're going to see a lot of engineers, doctors, college educated people from upper middle class backgrounds. The leader of ISIS has a PhD in theology. Osama Bin Laden came from one of the richest families in the world. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was a mechanical engineer. These aren't just a bunch of lost souls with no options in life.

[MMKM]

No, lack of education, food, etc are what makes people dangerous. Not religion by itself. The vast majority of well fed, well educated people with options for job and a life of their choosing aren't people that try to bring terror down on others. It is people that have no life options, no world perspective, no education etc.

A terrorist is such an inflammatory word for what these people are. They are just gangs. There is no difference. Gangs generally form for the same reasons - no options growing up and get sucked into that life. Both are bad for society and the only true way to combat it is to make sure the next generation is better educated, more exposed to world views, etc. If you read about teenagers in NKorea you'll understand this. They access the internet and know what's going on in the world. When this generation is gone and that 10 year old is 50 the world will be a different place. Stop hyperbolizing the situation. You are as bad as the media.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...proves-it.html
But one possible explanation arises from the data: Greater socioeconomic inequality is correlated with higher homicide rates, and Muslim societies have comparatively low levels of inequality. The regions with the most murder, Latin America and southern Africa, also have the highest values on the so-called Gini score, the statistic that economists and political scientists use to measure class inequality. High economic inequalities (which is what a high Gini score indicates) and high murder rates go together. Statistical analysis shows that countries with proportionately larger Muslim populations have lower Gini scores and lower murder rates.

I see the point you are making, but a key difference between most "gangs" and these terror cells is that

1) terror cells are religiously motivated whereas gangs are not
2) gangs typically have turf wars against other gangs and most of their violence is directed against each other. It is usually over drugs, territory, or something of monetary value. Terror cells are interested primarily in harming innocent people and mass casualties. That's their end game. Just to kill as many people as possible. Gangs are typically interested in fighting each other, not going out and killing women and children.

I think there are definitely some gang like elements in how terror cells form, but I would say it's more like a cult. Personally I don't give a sh!t what gets them to that point. They are evil incarnate.

[ALBballer]

Yet the Brits were the one to finance and support Wahhabis against the Ottomans in WWI.