The Shield > Breaking Bad

[niko]

I don't exactly remember, but didn't all the guy basically say was Hank needed a warrant? Which is something that many average joes know already and is mentioned in these shows? Its not like it took some greatly educated person to know these things.

Yep, that's all he said. Don't you need a warrant?

[DonDadda59]

I don't exactly remember, but didn't all the guy basically say was Hank needed a warrant? Which is something that many average joes know already and is mentioned in these shows? Its not like it took some greatly educated person to know these things.

Yep, that's all he said. Don't you need a warrant?

Nope. He shows up just as Hank is about to pry open the door and bust Walt and Jesse. He asks if he has a warrant, Hank says he doesn't need one. Professor Joe goes into a spiel about probable cause and how the RV is a private domicile, not a vehicle, thereby protected by the 4th amendment against unlawful search and seizure. Then after Hank removes the tape exposing the bullet holes on the door, attorney Joe makes it clear that probable cause has to be readily apparent otherwise the charge would not hold up in court. These are the terms he actually used, I'm not dressing up the language.

Classic deus ex machina as a gimmick plot device. The unassuming old junkyard owner turns out to be a constitutional law expert when it's most convenient.



Muphuckin jack of all trades

[guy]

Nope. He shows up just as Hank is about to pry open the door and bust Walt and Jesse. He asks if he has a warrant, Hank says he doesn't need one. Professor Joe goes into a spiel about probable cause and how the RV is a private domicile, not a vehicle, thereby protected by the 4th amendment against unlawful search and seizure. Then after Hank removes the tape exposing the bullet holes on the door, attorney Joe makes it clear that probable cause has to be readily apparent otherwise the charge would not hold up in court. These are the terms he actually used, I'm not dressing up the language.

Classic deus ex machina as a gimmick plot device. The unassuming old junkyard owner turns out to be a constitutional law expert when it's most convenient.



Muphuckin jack of all trades

Well, I stand corrected then. With that said, law jargon aside, I don't think it takes a genius to know that an RV is considered a home as opposed to a vehicle in the law's eyes, especially if they are old and have been working with vehicles. But I stand corrected.

[Bless Mathews]

Good points. Well reasoned. Keyboard warrior much?

You deleted my valid points ...

Straight herb ...

I thought you were at least 16.I was wrong...

[nightprowler10]

I wasn't trying to get that specific I meant more in that setting with so many compelling characters and storylines around him. Obviously his approach and everyone else's approach as a result towards certain situations would be different. But imagine him going after Stringer, Avon, Wee-bey, Marlo, Chris, etc. Imagine his interactions with Wallace, D'Angelo, Bubbles, Bodie, Omar, etc. **** it, lets just put the whole Strike Team as their Drug Enforcement Unit replacing some of the cops on that show. This time though, they are up against the same drug-dealing characters of the Wire, instead of just seemingly having a different foe every episode or every season.

By the way, I forgot what Daniels dirt was. Did they even mention it?

No I know, I just started thinking down that path because I don't feel like working. They never explicitly talk about Daniels' dirt, which was to prove how Cedric was smart not to ruffle the feathers at the wrong time, but I think it was cash related. I think he says to his wife at one point that everybody was doing it and he didn't have a choice.

Also, I think a better comparison over the two shows is between Dutch and McNulty. Both great detectives with some issues (one much more dark than the other). The strike team would replace Kima, Herc, and Carver. I know you're comparing main characters, but yeah again, I don't feel like working.

[nightprowler10]

Nope. He shows up just as Hank is about to pry open the door and bust Walt and Jesse. He asks if he has a warrant, Hank says he doesn't need one. Professor Joe goes into a spiel about probable cause and how the RV is a private domicile, not a vehicle, thereby protected by the 4th amendment against unlawful search and seizure. Then after Hank removes the tape exposing the bullet holes on the door, attorney Joe makes it clear that probable cause has to be readily apparent otherwise the charge would not hold up in court. These are the terms he actually used, I'm not dressing up the language.

Classic deus ex machina as a gimmick plot device. The unassuming old junkyard owner turns out to be a constitutional law expert when it's most convenient.



Muphuckin jack of all trades

I don't try to paint BB as realistic or anything, but that one isn't as far fetched as the other ones mentioned in this thread. Remember, this guy provides services to criminals while running a legit business. You absolutely have to know your **** when it comes to the law if you're going to be successful doing that. Hell, I'd have that **** memorized even if I didn't know what it really meant.

The one that always got my goat was the scene at Tuco's compound. That was the mother of all unrealistic events even if you ignore the fact that the chemistry doesn't work.

[guy]

I don't try to paint BB as realistic or anything, but that one isn't as far fetched as the other ones mentioned in this thread. Remember, this guy provides services to criminals while running a legit business. You absolutely have to know your **** when it comes to the law if you're going to be successful doing that. Hell, I'd have that **** memorized even if I didn't know what it really meant.

This is a very good point.

[guy]

I'll point out what I think was a plothole in the show. If I'm missing something, someone correct me. It has to do with the whole Tuco kidnapping Jesse and Walt, and Hank tracking them down.

So, Tuco kidnaps the two, Walt is missing. Skylar mentions the cell phone ringing and him taking the call before he vanishes. There's no record of the cell phone call. Hank, not mentioning it to Skylar, suspects a second cell phone and Walt's up to something shady, not something as serious as dealing with Meth, but at least an extramarital affair or something or something like that. Because of the weed buying relationship that the family knows Walt has with Jesse, Hank decides to look for Jesse, and finds out that he has some kind of GPS tracker in his car. So Hanks tracks down Jesse all the way to the dessert. Finds Tuco there with Jesse's car, with no Jesse or Walt around. Kills Tuco, finds Jesse's car with a ton of money. Then Hank calls it in and returns to town. They look for Jesse, and I don't remember the order, but I believe Walt returns back from his "fugue" state, and very shortly after, the cops find Jesse. Walt has no health issues that caused this "fugue" state. Because Hector won't rat, Hank and the DEA can't arrest Jesse implicate him for the unaccounted bag of money and has to accept Jesse's story that it was Tuco's money and Tuco must've stolen Jesse's car while Jesse was partying for three days at a motel, even though they don't believe it. Now if I'm not mistaken, Hank doesn't even ask Walt anything about this afterwards and his connection with Jesse, and then possibly a connection with Tuco, and even after telling the DEA why he was out in the dessert alone apprehending Tuco, the DEA doesn't ask the question either.

So, Hank already knows there's a connection between Walt and Jesse to the point that he'll track Jesse's car down to the desert just to look for Walt, he believes that Walt has a second cell phone and must be up to something shady, however minor it maybe, there is evidence to suggest his belief that there's a connection between Jesse and Tuco, then Walt and Jesse "coincidentally" show up back from there apparent disappearance from civilization around the same time, and Walt's disappearance doesn't suggest to be from any physical/mental issues. With all that, Hank doesn't even have one thought that Walt may have had some kind of encounter with Tuco and doesn't even ask him about it? If I'm not mistaken, he barely asks him anything about his whereabouts during that time. Now despite this evidence, maybe we could just write off Hank as a goofy, thickheaded, naive cop that would never think his own family and someone as soft and weak as Walt could ever be involved in anything worse then some weed or an affair. But then top of that, assuming he explains in detail the personal matters which resulted in him being there alone with Tuco, the DEA doesn't even ask the question.

Now like I said, maybe I'm missing something, maybe there were more conversations about this that I'm missing, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But if I'm right, thats a plothole that deserves criticism IMO.

[Sarcastic]

I agree that the Shield is better than Breaking Bad, but Game of Thrones is better than both.

[niko]

I'll point out what I think was a plothole in the show. If I'm missing something, someone correct me. It has to do with the whole Tuco kidnapping Jesse and Walt, and Hank tracking them down.

So, Tuco kidnaps the two, Walt is missing. Skylar mentions the cell phone ringing and him taking the call before he vanishes. There's no record of the cell phone call. Hank, not mentioning it to Skylar, suspects a second cell phone and Walt's up to something shady, not something as serious as dealing with Meth, but at least an extramarital affair or something or something like that. Because of the weed buying relationship that the family knows Walt has with Jesse, Hank decides to look for Jesse, and finds out that he has some kind of GPS tracker in his car. So Hanks tracks down Jesse all the way to the dessert. Finds Tuco there with Jesse's car, with no Jesse or Walt around. Kills Tuco, finds Jesse's car with a ton of money. Then Hank calls it in and returns to town. They look for Jesse, and I don't remember the order, but I believe Walt returns back from his "fugue" state, and very shortly after, the cops find Jesse. Walt has no health issues that caused this "fugue" state. Because Hector won't rat, Hank and the DEA can't arrest Jesse implicate him for the unaccounted bag of money and has to accept Jesse's story that it was Tuco's money and Tuco must've stolen Jesse's car while Jesse was partying for three days at a motel, even though they don't believe it. Now if I'm not mistaken, Hank doesn't even ask Walt anything about this afterwards and his connection with Jesse, and then possibly a connection with Tuco, and even after telling the DEA why he was out in the dessert alone apprehending Tuco, the DEA doesn't ask the question either.

So, Hank already knows there's a connection between Walt and Jesse to the point that he'll track Jesse's car down to the desert just to look for Walt, he believes that Walt has a second cell phone and must be up to something shady, however minor it maybe, there is evidence to suggest his belief that there's a connection between Jesse and Tuco, then Walt and Jesse "coincidentally" show up back from there apparent disappearance from civilization around the same time, and Walt's disappearance doesn't suggest to be from any physical/mental issues. With all that, Hank doesn't even have one thought that Walt may have had some kind of encounter with Tuco and doesn't even ask him about it? If I'm not mistaken, he barely asks him anything about his whereabouts during that time. Now despite this evidence, maybe we could just write off Hank as a goofy, thickheaded, naive cop that would never think his own family and someone as soft and weak as Walt could ever be involved in anything worse then some weed or an affair. But then top of that, assuming he explains in detail the personal matters which resulted in him being there alone with Tuco, the DEA doesn't even ask the question.

Now like I said, maybe I'm missing something, maybe there were more conversations about this that I'm missing, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But if I'm right, thats a plothole that deserves criticism IMO.

You wanted him to ask his brother in law if he was at Tuco's place during the shootout even though he didn't see him or any evidence of him? You wanted him to make the leap that Walt knew this person who sold drugs, and Walt was using drugs, therefore Walt went away with the guy for a few days to distribute the drugs? That's not a good connection. For Hank to put those together and suspect someone who was close to the last person he'd ever suspect is ridiculous.

[guy]

You wanted him to ask his brother in law if he was at Tuco's place during the shootout even though he didn't see him or any evidence of him? You wanted him to make the leap that Walt knew this person who sold drugs, and Walt was using drugs, therefore Walt went away with the guy for a few days to distribute the drugs? That's not a good connection. For Hank to put those together and suspect someone who was close to the last person he'd ever suspect is ridiculous.

He already made a big enough leap that Jesse might know where Walt was to the point that he tracked Jesse's car and went all the way to the dessert for answers. And he happens to find the biggest drug dealer in town there. On top of that, he wasn't buying Walt's story that he was in a "fugue" state, and thought that Walt was up to something shady. I'm not saying he should've suspected Walt was dealing drugs. I'm just saying, he didn't even ask Walt any questions about his disappearance, despite going through all that to find him and risk his life in the process, when he wasn't really buying Walt's "fugue" state anyway. He knew of a connection between Walt and Jesse and thought they might be together, believed in and had possible evidence of a connection between Jesse and Tuco, and Jesse and Walt return from their disappearance around the same time, yet Hank doesn't even suspect Walt may have had an encounter with Tuco? And even with the biased view he may have of his brother-in-law, the rest of the DEA who wouldn't be as biased don't ask? Sorry, I don't think its ridiculous at all.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't try to paint BB as realistic or anything, but that one isn't as far fetched as the other ones mentioned in this thread. Remember, this guy provides services to criminals while running a legit business. You absolutely have to know your **** when it comes to the law if you're going to be successful doing that. Hell, I'd have that **** memorized even if I didn't know what it really meant.

The one that always got my goat was the scene at Tuco's compound. That was the mother of all unrealistic events even if you ignore the fact that the chemistry doesn't work.

It wasn't just a memorization thing. Hank challenged him several times and he had a firm grasp on the intricacies of the law. Again, it's not just any one incident taken by itself which makes it unrealistic. It the number of times, at the very last moment, someone shows up or something happens which saves the main characters.

Like I said, there are plotholes, and there are some coincidences and unusual circumstances, but its overblown.

I'm not sure who's overblowing it. I already said I'm able to look past the obvious coincidences, plotholes, contrivances and unrealistic moments. If it was too out of hand, I wouldn't be able to watch it.

But, I also don't see any argument that this show can be called completely realistic. I don't even think it tries to be realistic. Like I said, it's more of a comic book come to life or old school serial and I think that's why people are drawn to it.

And, again... It's not about any one circumstance making the show unrealistic. It's all of the events taken in total. I mentioned a few off the top of my head and, yes, we can reason through each one of them and how they came to pass. They have pretty good writers and those guys aren't just going to have something happen which has no explanation at all (with the exception of a few sheer coincidences, like the guy in the bar meeting with Walt completely randomly the night he watched the guy's daughter die).

But when you take a step back and look at the number of times a main character was in a dire situation either with being killed or arrested and something happened at the very last moment to save them... It's just not plausible.

[nightprowler10]

It wasn't just a memorization thing. Hank challenged him several times and he had a firm grasp on the intricacies of the law. Again, it's not just any one incident taken by itself which makes it unrealistic. It the number of times, at the very last moment, someone shows up or something happens which saves the main characters.

Yup, no arguments there.

[gts]

I have not read the article, will do when I get home but I found this on my twitter feed

From start to finish, Breaking Bad has echoed the uncannily similar—and equally good—cop show The Shield

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/c...he_shield.html

[HomieWeMajor]

Vic is Hank's brother
He will be starring in the final BB episode to kill Walt and Nazis then run off with his immunity.