#11 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[Sarcastic]

I am perfectly aware of that and even with that criteria Lebron prevails, lets take the MVP & DPOY for example =

Lebron has finished Top 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 in MVP voting all his seasons basically..
Lebron has been also in Top 2-3-4 in DPOY voting...

Derrick Rose has an MVP and a ROTY. Isiah Thomas has neither.


Derrick Rose must be better than Isiah Thomas, using your logic.

[riseagainst]

Why not vote him over Hakeem, Kobe and so on aswell then (which i would never do)? Same thing actually as voting him over Lebron, as he also has accomplished more....

because when you combine individual stats and career accolades together, Big O's place just seems a tiny bit ahead of Lebron's. But Hakeem having 2 championships and 2 fmvps while playing at that incredible level that he did just cannot be surpassed just by Big O's triple doub seasons. Like 1 championship can be overshadowed by incredible individual performances. But having 2 championships is alot harder to beat just by stats alone.But if Lebron wins 1 more he'll definitely jump several spots.

Edit: they are basically toe to toe, I think. Let's say if Lebron were to retire right now. Then in a few years I might change my mind and perspective on things. Maybe I'm just having a slow morning right now and I just can't get over those triple double seasons.

[po3try]

I am between Moses and Lebron on this one, i think i will go with Lebron.

[Sarcastic]

because when you combine individual stats and career accolades together, Big O's place just seems a tiny bit ahead of Lebron's. But Hakeem having 2 championships and 2 fmvps while playing at that incredible level that he did just cannot be surpassed just by Big O's triple doub seasons. Like 1 championship can be overshadowed by incredible individual performances. But having 2 championships is alot harder to beat just by stats alone.But if Lebron wins 1 more he'll definitely jump several spots.

Edit: they are basically toe to toe, I think. Let's say if Lebron were to retire right now. Then in a few years I might change my mind and perspective on things. Maybe I'm just having a slow morning right now and I just can't get over those triple double seasons.

Hekeem's titles come with a caveat though: Jordan didn't play.

[riseagainst]

Hekeem's titles come with a caveat though: Jordan didn't play.

meh I think that's a terrible excuse to discredit someone's championship run (despite it being true ). That's like saying shaq's 00-02 runs were sh*t because he played against terrible competition in the finals.

[pauk]

Derrick Rose has an MVP and a ROTY. Isiah Thomas has neither.


Derrick Rose must be better than Isiah Thomas, using your logic.

Whoa!! How is that using my logic!!!?

Isiah Thomas has 2 championships and 1 FMVP (which Rose has neither of and which are more significant accomplishments in Isiahs context being the man of his team)... so no, that is not using my logic... the 1 MVP he has is not enough to overcome that...

But Lebron? He has it all compared to the likes of Moses...

My logic: Kobe has more accomplishments, therefore Kobe > Oscar
Your logic: Oscar has better stats, therefore Oscar > Kobe

Thats more closer to my and your logic...

[Pushxx]

Oscar

[Heilige]

LeBron James

[oolalaa]

Like JLaubs says, stop giving West a pass for losing in the finals so many times when you don't give one to Wilt

Are you kidding?

From '60 - '65, I do not blame Wilt for ANY of his losses in the post season. I give Wilt a big fat 6 year 'pass'. His teams were simply not as good as the Celtics. I don't give him enough praise for his '62 and '64 series against them. To take a pretty average supporting cast all the way to a game 7 against a loaded Boston team at the height of their powers is more than impressive. And his '64 Finals....He gave Russell the worst spanking of his career. I don't know the exact numbers, or what exactly happened to Russ (Injury? I'll have to find that out), but I do know that it wasn't pretty. Even though the Warriors lost 4-1, I would still have given the Finals MVP to Wilt.

I have repeatedly said over and over again: His '68 - '70 stretch is what I cannot simply forgive and forget. He was really poor in games 6 & 7 of both the '68 ECFs and the '69 Finals. He had AMPLE opportunity to win 2/3 more rings, and solidify himself as the greatest player of all time. He FAILED. I also think he chucked away a great chance at a title in '66, too. He switched to 'Russell mode' a season too late.


West was far from the perfect player that I make him out to be sometimes Not a good rebounder, not a GREAT leader (I don't think he was vocal or communicative enough), hugely injury prone (He seemingly couldn't go a full series without spraining an ankle, pulling a hamstring, hurting a hand etc).

The reason I call West 'unlucky', and abstain from granting Wilt the same courtesy, is because 1. Wilt was a much more talented all round player than West. 2. More often than not, West was great when he needed to be.....

-- The must-win game 5 of the '66 Finals (It was a must-win because the Lakers lost game 4 despite West putting up a 45/4/10 on 19/31 shooting). He hit a go-ahead/game winning jumper.
-- The must-win game 6 of the '66 Finals. Three crucial shots in crunch time.
-- The do-or-die game 7 in the '69 Finals. 42/13/12, including single handily bringing the Lakers back into it in the 4th as Wilt and Bread Kolff fueded on the bench.
--Game 2 of the '70 Finals. The game winning free throws to avoid going down 0-2.
-- Game 4 of the '70 Finals. Hitting his last 8 shots, including 6 points in the OT, to avoid going down 3-1.

His 2 main blemishes are the '66 Finals game 7 (Only 2 FGs in the first half as Boston romped away with it. To be fair Baylor only scored 2 points in the 1st half) and the '70 Finals game 7 (Frazier outplayed him in the first half as the Knicks romped away with it. West was playing with a badly jammed thumb). Other than that, West was really good.


Without the Wilt/Breda Kolff fued in '69 and Wilt shredding his knee in '70 West almost certainly would have finished his career with 3 rings and 2 FMVPs.

Ultimately, Wilt >>>> West, and no one will convince me otherwise, including myself

[DaHeezy]

big mo

[Mirko Cro Cop]

LeBron

[Heilige]

Are you kidding?

From '60 - '65, I do not blame Wilt for ANY of his losses in the post season. I give Wilt a big fat 6 year 'pass'. His teams were simply not as good as the Celtics. I don't give him enough praise for his '62 and '64 series against them. To take a pretty average supporting cast all the way to a game 7 against a loaded Boston team at the height of their powers is more than impressive. And his '64 Finals....He gave Russell the worst spanking of his career. I don't know the exact numbers, or what exactly happened to Russ (Injury? I'll have to find that out), but I do know that it wasn't pretty. Even though the Warriors lost 4-1, I would still have given the Finals MVP to Wilt.

I have repeatedly said over and over again: His '68 - '70 stretch is what I cannot simply forgive and forget. He was really poor in games 6 & 7 of both the '68 ECFs and the '69 Finals. He had AMPLE opportunity to win 2/3 more rings, and solidify himself as the greatest player of all time. He FAILED. I also think he chucked away a great chance at a title in '66, too. He switched to 'Russell mode' a season too late.


West was far from the perfect player that I make him out to be sometimes Not a good rebounder, not a GREAT leader (I don't think he was vocal or communicative enough), hugely injury prone (He seemingly couldn't go a full series without spraining an ankle, pulling a hamstring, hurting a hand etc).

The reason I call West 'unlucky', and abstain from granting Wilt the same courtesy, is because 1. Wilt was a much more talented all round player than West. 2. More often than not, West was great when he needed to be.....

-- The must-win game 5 of the '66 Finals (It was a must-win because the Lakers lost game 4 despite West putting up a 45/4/10 on 19/31 shooting). He hit a go-ahead/game winning jumper.
-- The must-win game 6 of the '66 Finals. Three crucial shots in crunch time.
-- The do-or-die game 7 in the '69 Finals. 42/13/12, including single handily bringing the Lakers back into it in the 4th as Wilt and Bread Kolff fueded on the bench.
--Game 2 of the '70 Finals. The game winning free throws to avoid going down 0-2.
-- Game 4 of the '70 Finals. Hitting his last 8 shots, including 6 in the OT, to avoid going down 3-1.

His 2 main blemishes are the '66 Finals game 7 (Only 2 FGs in the first half as Boston romped away with it. To be fair Baylor only scored 2 points in the 1st half) and the '70 Finals game 7 (Frazier outplayed him in the first half as the Knicks romped away with it. West was playing with a badly jammed thumb). Other than that, West was really good.


Without the Wilt/Breda Kolff fued in '69 and Wilt shredding his knee in '70 West almost certainly would have finished his career with 3 rings and 2 FMVPs.

Ultimately, Wilt >>>> West, and it's not that close.

oolalaa, what is your top 10 list like?

[Shade8780]

Adam Morrison. This list is already a joke :/

[oolalaa]

oolalaa, what is your top 10 list like?

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson

4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain

7. Tim Duncan
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Jerry West
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Hakeem Olajuwon

That's my top 11. Jordan is pretty set as my number 1. I would certainly entertain arguments for Russ and Magic to be over him, but they wouldn't be that hard to tear apart.

Kareem has NO case for GOAT whatsoever. Not after his inexcusable lack of team success in the NBAs weakest ever decade (Post 50s). His amazing longevity cannot be completely ignored though.

West over Kobe? Like I've said, despite what their respective ring totals indicate, West was a MUCH better Finals performer. It's basically a toss-up, but that's why I give the edge to West. Oh, and I also think Kobe is the most overrated 'clutch' performer in NBA history. With that being said, Kobe definitely could ened up in the top 7, maybe even as high as #4, if he holds off father time for a few more years....

[lakersfan2046]

Oscar Robertson