NSA helped UK set up similar system; NSA Whistleblower revealed

[Rasheed1]

It's nice to have dreams but like I said nothing will happen.

People don't care if the government looks to see where their phone calls are being made to and they certainly don't care about e-mails. A vast majority of the public is made up of law abiding citizens who have nothing to fear from this type of intrusion.

You keep beating that angry guy drum though, maybe somebody will listen to you

you can laugh at me and call me an "angry guy" but I still have hope that the American people will would wake up if they understand what is at stake before it is too late..

So far these past few weeks have been a perfect storm and a nightmare for the Obama admin... It has resulted in him waking up the press corps (which is the key and the 4th estate) and now the story is big news and it is set to stay in the news until the situation plays itself out..

if Snowden get arrested in a month, and year? it will be big news... If they go after Greenwald? he is a lawyer and it will also be big news..

I think there are enough americans who are tired of this sh*t and now this is in the public sphere, there will have to be some real resolutions to these issues.

[falc39]

It's nice to have dreams but like I said nothing will happen.

People don't care if the government looks to see where their phone calls are being made to and they certainly don't care about e-mails. A vast majority of the public is made up of law abiding citizens who have nothing to fear from this type of intrusion.

You keep beating that angry guy drum though, maybe somebody will listen to you

I can be negative at times with the grim reality, but what's the point of this kind of argument?

This is much better than having no whistleblower and letting it go for many more years unbeknownst to the public.

The exposure has big implications, not just to US citizens, but to everyone in the world. Everyone is aware of what the NSA is doing now. It changes the dynamic. It brings a real discussion to the table. At the least, America's image is at stake here, and it has been tarnished badly with scandal after scandal. In the end, no matter what happens, the history books wont be able to say anymore that it caught us by surprise or that we couldn't see it coming... we own this problem now even if people want to be ignorant of it.

[knickballer]

I can be negative at times with the grim reality, but what's the point of this kind of argument?

This is much better than having no whistleblower and letting it go for many more years unbeknownst to the public.

The exposure has big implications, not just to US citizens, but to everyone in the world. Everyone is aware of what the NSA is doing now. It changes the dynamic. It brings a real discussion to the table. At the least, America's image is at stake here, and it has been tarnished badly with scandal after scandal. In the end, no matter what happens, the history books wont be able to say anymore that it caught us by surprise or that we couldn't see it coming... we own this problem now even if people want to be ignorant of it.

You know what's sad? The discussion will continue to be abortion or gay rights. Useless topics that are meaningless for 99% of the population.

There's no real debate in the US only stupid unimportant BS that gets the populace distracted.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It really doesn't surprise me. I always assumed people were being monitored on the internet for potential links to certain crimes, and terrorism was obviously one. Admittedly, it's weird, but I can't say I'm too bothered by it to be honest. I have no reason to believe I'd ever be considered to have any affiliation with terrorists or terrorist organizations. And even if I was, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to discuss such things online. Just like if you are doing anything illegal, it's common sense to never say anything incriminating over the phone, even with much more minor offenses. I understand why people feel it's an invasion, and I sort of feel that myself, but I don't think they'll give much thought to the average, law-abiding every day person.

[daily]

I can be negative at times with the grim reality, but what's the point of this kind of argument?

The point is nobody really cares. You really had to be told by a former CIA employee the government was monitoring where our phone calls were being made to? That our e-mails are scanned for "buzzwords" or they watch which countries they go to and that your phone company was helping out?

This is nothing new, it's been out there forever. There were polls about this very subject back after 911 and a majority thought it was a good idea then and the same will think it's a good idea now.

Everyone acting like this is some new deep dark secret revealed, it's not it's nothing new. All that's happened is some guy's ruined his life thinking he was going to do something positive when the reality is anyone with a brain knew this was going on. This is the greatest "duh" moment in the last 20 years

Honestly, if I had told you this was going on a year ago would you have said no way not in my country?

Edit, and right on cue my twitter feeds pops up with

Majority Views NSA Phone Tracking as Acceptable Anti-terror Tactic
Public Says Investigate Terrorism, Even If It Intrudes on Privacy

A majority of Americans – 56% – say the National Security Agency’s (NSA) program tracking the telephone records of millions of Americans is an acceptable way for the government to investigate terrorism, though a substantial minority – 41% – say it is unacceptable. And while the public is more evenly divided over the government’s monitoring of email and other online activities to prevent possible terrorism, these views are largely unchanged since 2002, shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center and The Washington Post, conducted June 6-9 among 1,004 adults, finds no indications that last week’s revelations of the government’s collection of phone records and internet data have altered fundamental public views about the tradeoff between investigating possible terrorism and protecting personal privacy.

Currently 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy. Just 34% say it is more important for the government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats.



http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/...terror-tactic/

[IcanzIIravor]

Makes me wish I never left the agency.

[Rasheed1]

It really doesn't surprise me. I always assumed people were being monitored on the internet for potential links to certain crimes, and terrorism was obviously one. Admittedly, it's weird, but I can't say I'm too bothered by it to be honest. I have no reason to believe I'd ever be considered to have any affiliation with terrorists or terrorist organizations. And even if I was, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to discuss such things online. Just like if you are doing anything illegal, it's common sense to never say anything incriminating over the phone, even with much more minor offenses. I understand why people feel it's an invasion, and I sort of feel that myself, but I don't think they'll give much thought to the average, law-abiding every day person.

you dont dont know what the government considers to be terrorsist, or dangerous to their reign..

I would caution all Americans against using the logic that says "I havent done anything wrong"

Your idea of "wrong may not coincide with e government's definition of wrong.

Plenty of Obama supporters trust him, but the powers he secures for the executive branch extend to the next president..

when you allow a government to build a super structure that uses all technology to spy on everyone? you run the risk of being at the mercy of whatever they deem to be a crime..

I suspect (fortunately) that now that this is public knowledge, it will trigger a few class action law suits from customers of these companies and put a case before the supreme court of the United States.. I dont think Scalia (and even the uncle tom Clarence Thomas) view this as constitutional because it violates the 4th amendment on a couple of levels...

The outing of this secret, gives the American public the STANDING they need in court to challenge such a law.

We dont want the government building an apparatus which can build profiles of all human beings through spying ...

Ive worked for a school district and even they do data mining which is basically building profiles and collecting data on everyone involved in a program.

it violates the constitution and it isnt necessary to fight terrorism..

It only serves the purpose of giving the asking agency a total file on YOU..

That isnt necessary and Americans shouldnt stand for it.. It goes against everything the country was founded on..

ive argued with administrators about their shirking of their promise to the public to respect the privacy of their stakeholders..

data mining is very dangerous and the US government has gone full in on it, and now the public needs to be aware of it

saying "i havent done anything wrong" is a naive statement that doesnt address the reality of the issues at hand..

you dont know if you have "done anything wrong" in the eyes of the law, and you need to protect yourself from certain tactics that corporations and governments use to find out information on you...

protect yourself

[bmulls]

you dont dont know what the government considers to be terrorsist, or dangerous to their reign..

I would caution all Americans against using the logic that says "I havent done anything wrong"

Your idea of "wrong may not coincide with e government's definition of wrong.

Plenty of Obama supporters trust him, but the powers he secures for the executive branch extend to the next president..

when you allow a government to build a super structure that uses all technology to spy on everyone? you run the risk of being at the mercy of whatever they deem to be a crime..

I suspect (fortunately) that now that this is public knowledge, it will trigger a few class action law suits from customers of these companies and put a case before the supreme court of the United States.. I dont think Scalia (and even the uncle tom Clarence Thomas) view this as constitutional because it violates the 4th amendment on a couple of levels...

The outing of this secret, gives the American public the STANDING they need in court to challenge such a law.

We dont want the government building an apparatus which can build profiles of all human beings through spying ...

Ive worked for a school district and even they do data mining which is basically building profiles and collecting data on everyone involved in a program.

it violates the constitution and it isnt necessary to fight terrorism..

It only serves the purpose of giving the asking agency a total file on YOU..

That isnt necessary and Americans shouldnt stand for it.. It goes against everything the country was founded on..

ive argued with administrators about their shirking of their promise to the public to respect the privacy of their stakeholders..

data mining is very dangerous and the US government has gone full in on it, and now the public needs to be aware of it

saying "i havent done anything wrong" is a naive statement that doesnt address the reality of the issues at hand..

you dont know if you have "done anything wrong" in the eyes of the law, and you need to protect yourself from certain tactics that corporations and governments use to find out information on you...

protect yourself

Preach on. That is a very dangerous mind set.

[Rasheed1]

Preach on. That is a very dangerous mind set.

its a strange time when me & bmulls agree, but we do here n I welcome it

[IcanzIIravor]

so he's checked out of his hotel

and is currently missing

im sure by his own doing... doubt he's been 'captured'

Yep it was smart of him. Probably hiding out at an embassy or had flown out to a different destination that he can't be easily nabbed in. If his beef is strictly about the NSA spying within the USA on people not interacting internationally then I understand his concern. If it is about the NSA spying in general then he was pretty naive considering to get his ts/sci with poli he had to get a rigorous background check and go through extensive interviews. He knew in general what the agency is tasked to do.

[ispin69]

[Ne 1]

I would caution all Americans against using the logic that says "I havent done anything wrong"

"Have nothing to hide" is fascist-speak for "no privacy and freedom"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znTk4XPH1Ys

[IcanzIIravor]

Bradley did a dump without going over any of the data he gave to wiki leaks. I've a problem with that.

[Rasheed1]

as for the poster Shaqattack... I only responded to you because you come off as a guy who actually THINKS... that is something other thinkers can work with.. so props to you... no disrespect for qouting you..


you raise some some relevant points....

[falc39]

The point is nobody really cares. You really had to be told by a former CIA employee the government was monitoring where our phone calls were being made to? That our e-mails are scanned for "buzzwords" or they watch which countries they go to and that your phone company was helping out?

This is nothing new, it's been out there forever. There were polls about this very subject back after 911 and a majority thought it was a good idea then and the same will think it's a good idea now.

Everyone acting like this is some new deep dark secret revealed, it's not it's nothing new. All that's happened is some guy's ruined his life thinking he was going to do something positive when the reality is anyone with a brain knew this was going on. This is the greatest "duh" moment in the last 20 years

Honestly, if I had told you this was going on a year ago would you have said no way not in my country?

Edit, and right on cue my twitter feeds pops up with

Majority Views NSA Phone Tracking as Acceptable Anti-terror Tactic
Public Says Investigate Terrorism, Even If It Intrudes on Privacy

A majority of Americans – 56% – say the National Security Agency’s (NSA) program tracking the telephone records of millions of Americans is an acceptable way for the government to investigate terrorism, though a substantial minority – 41% – say it is unacceptable. And while the public is more evenly divided over the government’s monitoring of email and other online activities to prevent possible terrorism, these views are largely unchanged since 2002, shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center and The Washington Post, conducted June 6-9 among 1,004 adults, finds no indications that last week’s revelations of the government’s collection of phone records and internet data have altered fundamental public views about the tradeoff between investigating possible terrorism and protecting personal privacy.

Currently 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy. Just 34% say it is more important for the government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats.



http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/...terror-tactic/

We will just have to differ in opinion, because I wouldn't call those percentages "nobody".

And seriously, I doubt so many people knew what was going on... not at this scale. Sure, everyone knew they may have been tapping phones, but it was a secret that the government had "direct access" to so many tech giants information... of every type of electronic communication. Unless you had access to classified information there is just no way for you to know that and which companies came aboard at what time.

But everyone can act like a know-it-all after the fact..... if it was the greatest "duh" moment, link a post of yours from the past that shows you knew it in this detail. The difference between you and the whistleblower is the whistleblower has more credibility and proof than you would if you were just going to come on a forum and said "hey, the NSA is doing this".

The whistleblower also released 40+ slides to the press... but only 4 or so actually got shown to the public. So he actually deserves more credit because if he actually got his wish, we would know soooo much more than we would've if he hadn't come out. There is still a chance the other slides can come out.