Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-12-2010, 02:52 PM   #16
bhallic24
I rule the local playground
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 535
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal9
Before we write a eulogy for Lebron's legacy...let's take a trip down memory lane...

Game 5, 1989 ECF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgiPrZ1eDTU (entire game is on youtube)


At this point, this was the biggest game of Jordan's career, he's in his prime and he pulls the same sh*t Lebron did. You know how many shots he took in the game? EIGHT. And half of them were in the first quarter. He took just one shot in the fourth quarter and airballed it. It wasn't like the game was out of hand, it was a nip and tuck till the end. Just like the Cavs last night, the Bulls were waiting for MJ to take over, or at least show he cared...but it never came.

it's never about just the number of shots...it's the demeanor. Bulls were up 2-1 in this series and stole home court, Jordan carried them in the game 3 win...didn't have a good game 4 and they lost, teammates didn't play well which was often the case. He comes out next game and plays the same passive way LBJ/KB have been accused of. Floats passes, has weird turnovers where his head doesn't seem in the game, content to just dump off the ball to his teammates and watch them 25 feet away from the hoop, content to have Brad Sellers take late clock jumpers rather than look or demand for the ball. There was defensive pressure sure, it's the bad boy Pistons after all, just like there was defensive pressure any time Lebron plays the Celtics. Great defense or not, you can't watch the game and not come out thinking the same thing you thought last night...wtf was MJ doing?


Even the announcers were puzzled and wondering what the hell was going on...

“he hasn’t really gotten that aggressive look at the offensive end so far”

”it’s almost like Jordan is on cruise control”

”at this point, Jordan is not even looking at the basket. More or less content to be a decoy”

”he’s been as quiet as a mouse, he just hasn’t been looking at the hoop and I think he has to”



Now put yourself back in 1989. You just watched MJ go through the motions for an entire game in the biggest game of his career, and it's more than likely because he's pissed at his team for not helping him in the previous game. Would you not be questioning his "killer instinct", "will to win" etc etc? Fast forward 5 years, when Jordan completes the three peat...are you still saying the same thing? Lebron's "killer instinct" was just fine when he refused to lose vs. Pistons in '07, in game 7 vs. Celts in '08, when he saved Cavs from elimination with one of the most dominant fourth quarters I've ever seen in game 5 vs. Magic last year, but now his legacy is forever tarnished over "killer instinct"?

The point of this post? Before you start going wild over last night's game, know that going back to Jordan's career at the same age, you'd be saying the same thing and come out looking like an ass once his career was done. The biggest difference between when MJ had these "I am going to prove a point" games 20 years ago to now? He didn't have the entire world congregating on the internet and accuse him of dogging it.

excellent post. LEbron right, media wrong. Stop overreacting media! fans! Its one bad game. Its only game 5.
bhallic24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 02:53 PM   #17
ShaqAttack3234
7-time NBA All-Star
 
ShaqAttack3234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,753
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBJFTW
Karl Malone has already been insulted once for him being compared to Boozer, someone who commits a hand shake agreement with a team and then backdoors them.

Right, because a guy who knocks up a 13 year old girl when he's 21 and doesn't acknowledge the kid is much better.
ShaqAttack3234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:01 PM   #18
TheAnchorman
Luchini from the sky
 
TheAnchorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,535
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
Lebron seems to be flirting with other teams all season, he looks totally distracted by this, or his injury, etc. and has the entire playoffs with the exception of one or two games. So, we are comparing it with ONE game in an MJ series. Totally same thing, right?
No. I never said it was "totally the same thing". I just feel its strikingly similar.

I don't want you to feel that because I think the situation is similar that I think Cavs are going to lose afterwards, just as Jordan did back then. They are all different circumstances, I just see a lot of parallels:

1.) Superstar player in his prime playing extremely passive
2.) Team's offense very heavily relies on superstar player.
3.) Great opposing team defense exacerbating said superstar's passive play
4.) Supporting cast failing to carry the load at this case.
5.) EVERYONE criticizing superstar, his reputation goes down.

The only difference is that Lebron still has a chance because he has the better team. He can learn from history.
TheAnchorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:02 PM   #19
LBJFTW
Duncan > Lebron
 
LBJFTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,696
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Right, because a guy who knocks up a 13 year old girl when he's 21 and doesn't acknowledge the kid is much better.

Were talking about activity as it pertains to the NBA, not their lives outside of it. If you want to open that door we can start talking about Kobe's actions outside of the NBA.....
LBJFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:03 PM   #20
niko
I Run NY.
 
niko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 28,389
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnchorman
No. I never said it was "totally the same thing". I just feel its strikingly similar.

I don't want you to feel that because I think the situation is similar that I think Cavs are going to lose afterwards, just as Jordan did back then. They are all different circumstances, I just see a lot of parallels:

1.) Superstar player in his prime playing extremely passive
2.) Team's offense very heavily relies on superstar player.
3.) Great opposing team defense exacerbating said superstar's passive play
4.) Supporting cast failing to carry the load at this case.
5.) EVERYONE criticizing superstar, his reputation goes down.

The only difference is that Lebron still has a chance because he has the better team. He can learn from history.

it hasn't been ONE game though, it's been lingering this whole playoffs, but it was super noticable this game. It's not a one game abberation.
niko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:10 PM   #21
TheAnchorman
Luchini from the sky
 
TheAnchorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,535
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
it hasn't been ONE game though, it's been lingering this whole playoffs, but it was super noticable this game. It's not a one game abberation.
Lebron had the highest playoff efficiency entering Game 5. Yes, you could sense it in Game 2 and a little bit in Game 4. But it wasn't exposed to the extent it was in Game 5.

Why do you think everyone overreacted so much this game? Wasn't there a similar reaction to MJ's Game 5 flop? The announcers were just as confused as we are, and I'm willing to bet everyone else was as well. It's the same situation here; there is a hilarious amount of discussion going on in these damn forums
TheAnchorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:19 PM   #22
niko
I Run NY.
 
niko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 28,389
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnchorman
Lebron had the highest playoff efficiency entering Game 5. Yes, you could sense it in Game 2 and a little bit in Game 4. But it wasn't exposed to the extent it was in Game 5.

Why do you think everyone overreacted so much this game? Wasn't there a similar reaction to MJ's Game 5 flop? The announcers were just as confused as we are, and I'm willing to bet everyone else was as well. It's the same situation here; there is a hilarious amount of discussion going on in these damn forums

there never was a game from MJ where afterwards he got this level of negative reaction. NEVER. Again, that is total revisionist history. You pull a couple of bad quotes and compare it. Were you watching back then? As a Knick fan, i have a very very bad front row seat to the Jordan era, and there never ever ever was a day where he got blasted like Lebron is now, or people universally (not in jsut a few place) questioned his motivation or if he wanted to be in Chicago.

You are comparing two situations that have some charateristics but are nowhere near the same in scope.
niko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:20 PM   #23
G.O.A.T
Scott Hastings Fan
 
G.O.A.T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 5,592
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnchorman
Lebron had the highest playoff efficiency entering Game 5. Yes, you could sense it in Game 2 and a little bit in Game 4. But it wasn't exposed to the extent it was in Game 5.

Why do you think everyone overreacted so much this game? Wasn't there a similar reaction to MJ's Game 5 flop? The announcers were just as confused as we are, and I'm willing to bet everyone else was as well. It's the same situation here; there is a hilarious amount of discussion going on in these damn forums

it's not just the forums, it's all of sports talk radio today, it just adds fuel to fire of those who can't stand the overexposure.

In one sense, it validates how great of a player he is, the fact that the reaction to this is so strong.

In a greater sense however it further exemplifies that today's sports journalism is much more entertainment and less information and the pendulum won't be swinging back anytime soon.

To me the story is far from over, not just this series, but LeBron's legacy as a whole. This chapter, if it ends in Boston or before the Finals really, will be a notable blemish on the resume on the gamest most magnified star but it will not define him.

Historically it's gone two ways this decade alone. Steve Nash won back-to-back MVP's in 2005 and 2006, but never got out of the Western Conference and as of this post, still hasn't. Tim Duncan won the MVP in 2002, the Spurs however lost to the Lakers in the playoffs. Duncan won the MVP again in 2003, and overcame the Lakers en route to a title. Many expected that to be LeBron's road to redemption this year and it still may be. Remember the last two NBA Champions were taken to seven games in the second round. (Bos vs. Cle & LA vs. Hou)
G.O.A.T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:23 PM   #24
Fatal9
owwwww
 
Fatal9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,248
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian guy
MJ did it once, on the road, against a heavily favored team.

LeBron's' done it 3 times, twice at home, against an inferior team.

So no, not the "same stuff".
The point is the same. Go back 20 years, you could come out saying the same thing about MJ as you can do about Lebron now. Doesn't matter if you threw one game or two games...it should never happen, but EVERY article I am reading is going on and on about how "MJ would always go balls out in every big game". Nitpick every legend's career and you'll come out with games like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.O.A.T
Two years in a row losing to inferior teams (based on Vegas odds and regular season record) in the postseason is a sizable blemish when your talking about one of the greatest players in NBA history based on regular season awards and recognition.
Magic were an inferior team last year when Lebron was going to war with Mo Williams as his sidekick? Anyone buying that? Regular season last year meant absolutely crap considering Cavs did in fact struggle against top teams. Their over dependence on Lebron only gets exposed in the playoffs, and not against the other 80% of the league filled with mediocre teams who the Cavs have no trouble beating. You can post a great record in the season but no one wins without help in the playoffs, and the talent/depth gap between Cavs and Magic last year was huge. Jordan has never gone into a playoff series with HCA while having such an inferior supporting cast relative to the other team. It's a different situation, which is why I never liked these blanket statements of "he never lost with HCA".

This year, the team is much better and I'm pretty sure he hasn't lost just yet. If they win game 6, they are the favorites to win the series again so lets at least wait until it happens. Losing to a rejuvenated Celtics team with the same core who won a ring just two years ago, is not losing to an inferior team. Didn't Pierce/KG sit out some games this year? Didn't the Celts go through a really bad phase mid-season? Do you really think this is just a typical 50 win team now that everyone is healthy? Again...the series isn't over yet.
Fatal9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:24 PM   #25
G.O.A.T
Scott Hastings Fan
 
G.O.A.T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 5,592
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Seems like everything is under control here.
G.O.A.T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:28 PM   #26
Stephen_H
The Most Hated
 
Stephen_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 256
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Why is Lebron's 7th year in the NBA being compared to Jordan 5th year?

In Jordan's 7th year he became a world champion, defeating Magic Johnson and the Lakers.
Stephen_H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:28 PM   #27
boozehound
An uglier Lamar Doom
 
boozehound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,692
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
it hasn't been ONE game though, it's been lingering this whole playoffs, but it was super noticable this game. It's not a one game abberation.
you are ****ing nuts, niko. Look at his PER before last nights game.
boozehound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:32 PM   #28
TheAnchorman
Luchini from the sky
 
TheAnchorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,535
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
there never was a game from MJ where afterwards he got this level of negative reaction. NEVER. Again, that is total revisionist history. You pull a couple of bad quotes and compare it. Were you watching back then? As a Knick fan, i have a very very bad front row seat to the Jordan era, and there never ever ever was a day where he got blasted like Lebron is now, or people universally (not in jsut a few place) questioned his motivation or if he wanted to be in Chicago.

You are comparing two situations that have some charateristics but are nowhere near the same in scope.
How are they nowhere the same in scope? And how is it just "some characteristics"? Both Game 5s were exposures:

1.) Exposed a lack of team offense when superstar was not dominating
2.) Exposed a coach who was not able to control his team, as well as get the most out of superstar
3.) Exposed a supporting cast that cannot carry the load.
4.) Exposed against a team with a heralded defensive reputation.

What would it take for you to see a great similarity between those 2 games? For it to be the same teams? For Lebron to fume in the press conference? That would so Jordanesque, to be angry in front of the media. He should also stick his tongue out as well. J/K. But you get my point.

The best player in the league playing in the most important game of their season, in a series that everyone is watching because its the only series left, plays way below expectations. Hmmm I see Jordan did the exact same thing as well, against the best team in the league in a series that everyone was watching. Along the way the team and coach were exposed as lacking. I think that is enough for me to warrant a comparison, I do not know about you my friend.

Last edited by TheAnchorman : 05-12-2010 at 03:35 PM.
TheAnchorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:35 PM   #29
pegasus
€uroInU$A
 
pegasus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,460
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_H
Why is Lebron's 7th year in the NBA being compared to Jordan 5th year?

In Jordan's 7th year he became a world champion, defeating Magic Johnson and the Lakers.

Lebron in his 7th year is younger than what Jordan was in his 5th season. But I don't think it has much to do with age. Lebron is just an egotistical prick!
pegasus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2010, 03:35 PM   #30
Reality
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: MJ was doing the same stuff at Lebron's age too...

By "stuff" do you mean steroids?
  Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:44 PM.






NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy