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Old 06-14-2017, 03:01 PM   #31
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

So I figure it might make sense to look at the completion that and RIley faced during their 5 finals runs


Pat Riley

82 Suns (46-36)
82 Spurs (48-34)
82 76ers (58-24)

85 Suns (36-46)
85 Blazers (42-40)
85 Nuggets (52-30)
85 Celtics (63-19)

87 Nuggets (37-25)
87 Warriors (42-40)
87 Sonics (39-43)
87 Celtics (59-23)

88 Spurs (31-51)
88 Jazz (47-35)
88 Mavs (53-29)
88 Pistons (54-28)

06 Bulls (41-41)
06 Nets (49-33)
06 Pistons (64-18)
06 Mavs (60-22)




Gregg Popovich

99 Timberwolves (25-25)
99 Lakers (31-19)
99 Blazers (35-15)
99 Knicks (27-23)

03 Suns (44-38)
03 Lakers (50-32)
03 Mavs (60-22)
03 Nets (49-33)

05 Nuggets (49-33)
05 Sonics (52-30)
05 Suns (62-20)
05 Pistons (54-28)

07 Nuggets (45-37)
07 Suns (61-21)
07 Jazz (51-31)
07 Cavs (50-32)

14 Mavs (49-33)
14 Blazers (54-28)
14 Thunder (59-23)
14 Heat (54-28)

So when I looked across these teams, I came to a simple conclusion. It seems like throughout their title runs Popovich faced the tougher competition leading up to the finals (the semi's and conference finals). Whiles Riley on the other hand seemed to have face tougher competition in terms of actual finals opponents. So it's hard for me to really give one the edge in competion during their 5 title runs
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:39 PM   #32
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhsilv
haha, Riley is certainly in the jerry west club of guys who seem good at everything.


Jerry West was a failed Coach . A failed GM in Memphis when he quit at 20-62 after drafting Drew Gooden over Amare Stoudamire.


Jerry West also gets much if the credit for building ShowTime which he did not do. West was a scout who wanted Sydney Moncrief over Magic in '79 essentially killing Showtime.


Bill Sharman was Gm & then President when Lakers got the 1st pick in 79(Magic) & traded for the 1st pick in 82(Worthy) & hired Pat Riley.

Sharman is the HOF player & Coach( very rare combo) ,but it seems West get credit for much of his work.
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Old 06-15-2017, 02:03 PM   #33
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

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Originally Posted by dhsilv
RC is the best in the game at his job. I'm sure pop gets a say, but RC makes the call.

Nah the way the Spurs, seems to do It, is that RC, Pop and his staff make it a team effort. No decision gets made unless everyones on the same page.

RC and Pop are partners they don't care about the whole ego trip thing
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Old 06-15-2017, 03:48 PM   #34
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

I rate em:

1. Pat Riley - coach and exec
2. Jerry West - exec
3. Popovich - coach and exec
4. Phil Jackson - coach

Pat Riley- 3x Franchise success,*3 as coach (lake,knicks, heat), 2 as exec (knicks, heat)* titles with 2 franchises
Jerry West- 2x franchise success (Lakers/Warriors), exec, titles with 2 franchises
Greg Popovich - 1x franchise success, coach and exec, prolonged dominance, titles with 1 franchise
Phil Jackson - 2x franchise success, 2 as coach, prolonged dominance with 2 franchises

I forgot about Red Auerbach. I'd probably have him somewhere around 1-3

Last edited by 305Baller : 06-15-2017 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:25 PM   #35
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

I think a lot of people struggle to separate Phil's coaching skills from his gm skills. They're two very different roles that require very unique skill sets.
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:29 PM   #36
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

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Originally Posted by Purch
I think a lot of people struggle to separate Phil's coaching skills from his gm skills. They're two very different roles that require very unique skill sets.


Phil was decided facto GM with the Lakers & brought in his own players. West left in 2000 because of Phil's power.
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Old 07-16-2017, 05:52 PM   #37
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

Obviously Pop gets a recency boost due to the fact he's still coaching. Riley's last championship team was 06, Phil's was 2010 and Pop's was 2014.
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Old 07-16-2017, 08:53 PM   #38
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

Quote:
So speaking strictly in terms of coaches, why is he sometimes thought of as less than these 2?

Many factors. But the main ones are:

1. Riley won his titles in the 80's. And people remember it was because of that team was uber stacked. If the Warriors win the next 5 titles, people are going to remember Curry and Durant, not Kerr. Phil was remembered because of Triangle and he won threepeats with different teams. Also, 11 titles.

2. Riley continuously lost against Phil in the 90s. Except that one year they lost MJ to baseball. But even that worked in Phil's favor because nobody expected Bulls to be that good post MJ.

3. Riley's last season was a disaster, going 15-67. Phil never had a losing season, even when he had Smush and Kwame as starters.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:34 AM   #39
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

Pat Riley quit the Knicks when James took over from his father.

Right there that makes him smarter than Phil.

I'll take Pop over them both any day.
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:10 PM   #40
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgine
Many factors. But the main ones are:

1. Riley won his titles in the 80's. And people remember it was because of that team was uber stacked. If the Warriors win the next 5 titles, people are going to remember Curry and Durant, not Kerr. Phil was remembered because of Triangle and he won threepeats with different teams. Also, 11 titles.

2. Riley continuously lost against Phil in the 90s. Except that one year they lost MJ to baseball. But even that worked in Phil's favor because nobody expected Bulls to be that good post MJ.

3. Riley's last season was a disaster, going 15-67. Phil never had a losing season, even when he had Smush and Kwame as starters.

1. If anything Riley proved himself as a coach more in the 90's than the 80's. You're right that people couldnt differentiate Riley's coaching from the talent he had during showtime. However, when Riley took over the Knicks and suddenly they were playing a slow paced, elite defensive brand of basketball, completly different than showtime, that's when Riley got validated by both fans and the media.

2. Absolutely right. Riley always lost to Phil head to head.

3. Yea, but I think everyone realized things were falling apart after the championship season, Shaq was out, then Wade spent the whole season injured. It's still amazing to me how quickly things fell apart.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:09 PM   #41
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Default Re: Does Pat Riley often get underrated in comparisons with Pop and Phil? If so why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopologyPhD
GOAT haircut and fashion for a coach as well as being consensus top five

Red, PJ, Pop, Riley, ???

Players play but coaches need to steady the ship and put them in their best positions if they want to win.

Daly imo.

I think if you give those guys any team in history Riley would have the most success. Pop being second and Phil a distant third.
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