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  1. #1
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    Default The Fiscal Cliff

    The Background:

    [INDENT]

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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    The predicted effects of us falling over the cliff if no deal is reached by the end of the year:

    US NEWS report

    The Congressional Research Service (CRS), along with the CBO, and anyone who lived through the stagnant economy during the Bush tax cuts era concluded:

    Multiple CRS Reports Show Tax Cuts for Rich Will Not Harm Economic Growth

    The New York Times recently reported that a Congressional Research Service (CRS) report was "withdrawn from circulation" at the behest of Senate Republicans. The CRS report finds no relationship between upper-income tax rates and economic growth, undercutting Republican claims that an extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy is necessary for economic growth. Senate Republicans called the report's validity into question, and CRS eventually withdrew it. However, the report's findings are only the latest in a series that suggest only a tenuous relationship between the economy and upper-income and capital gains tax cuts.

    Rest of the Article

    The Report

    History and facts tells us that the times of highest economic growth coincide with the times of highest top tax rates. For a recent example, just compare the economy under the Clinton era tax rates with the economy under the Bush tax cuts. It's a no brainer, really.

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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Barry O lays down the law:

    [INDENT]Obama to open talks with $1.6 trillion plan to raise taxes on corporations, wealthy



    By Zachary A. Goldfarb and Lori Montgomery, Published: November 13

    President Obama is taking a hard line with congressional Republicans heading into negotiations over the year-end

  4. #4
    7-time NBA All-Star Droid101's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Barry isn't holding back.

    Either they cave and leave taxes on the middle class/poor the same and raise them for the rich and impose new ones on millionaires, or taxes for EVERYONE go up when the Bush cuts expire.

    Your move, House.

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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid101
    Barry isn't holding back.

    Either they cave and leave taxes on the middle class/poor the same and raise them for the rich and impose new ones on millionaires, or taxes for EVERYONE go up when the Bush cuts expire.

    Your move, House.
    Exactly, Grover Norquist and his minions have already been check-mated. It's either raise the taxes on 2% of Americans to levels similar to what they were when our economy was strong (which is what the vast majority of Americans agree with, 60-35) or let taxes go up on 100% of the population, drastic spending cuts to occur, unemployment to skyrocket, and a new recession to kick in.

    How is Boehner (Norquist) going to explain to the American people that the reason they are losing jobs in droves and we are plunged into another deep recession is only because they don't want to raise income taxes on 2% of the population by a handful of percentage points? It's either get with the program or pay for it come election time.

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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    More blame for GOP if a deal isn't reached...

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...iff/?hpt=hp_t2


    i knew they would impede and fight Obama's actions to address the fiscal cliff like they have everything else until they get their way. i'm glad public sentiment is against them and putting blame on the House GOP if a deal doesn't get done, puts most of the pressure on them to give in, otherwise i don't think they would since they're so anti Obama stubborn.

    its so annoying how they already lost the popular vote on raising taxes for the rich, and still able to fight it thru the House.

  7. #7
    Alpha Tarheel rufuspaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Those fukcing rich people. Gotta hate them. Shame on them for making all that money and not giving us any of it.

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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by rufuspaul
    Those fukcing rich people. Gotta hate them. Shame on them for making all that money and not giving us any of it.
    Tar and feather them! You didn't see the last Batman movie? There's a storm coming, Mr. Paul

    But seriously though, has nothing to do with hate, shame, etc. Like I said, look at the top tax rates in this country for the past say 70 years, then check how they correlate with the GDP and other factors of economic health.

    Watch Republican Ben Stein explain it to one of the innumerable blond ditzes on Fox News:

    It's basic common sense

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    7-time NBA All-Star Droid101's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by rufuspaul
    Those fukcing rich people. Gotta hate them. Shame on them for making all that money and not giving us any of it.


    This old canard? Taxes are lower for rich people than any time in our history. Give us one good reason why their rates can't go back to Clinton levels (the same time we had our last economic boon). Go on, one reason.

  10. #10
    Serious playground baller General's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by DonDadda59
    Exactly, Grover Norquist and his minions have already been check-mated. It's either raise the taxes on 2% of Americans to levels similar to what they were when our economy was strong (which is what the vast majority of Americans agree with, 60-35) or let taxes go up on 100% of the population, drastic spending cuts to occur, unemployment to skyrocket, and a new recession to kick in.

    How is Boehner (Norquist) going to explain to the American people that the reason they are losing jobs in droves and we are plunged into another deep recession is only because they don't want to raise income taxes on 2% of the population by a handful of percentage points? It's either get with the program or pay for it come election time.
    Let him go wild I say to my fellow Republicans, The country will learn the hard way that socialism does not work. Once Obama gets his tax hikes HE WILL OWN THIS ECONOMY, I don't want to hear Bush's name ever again from a liberal stating this was his fault. This is Obama's economy from now on.

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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by General
    Let him go wild I say to my fellow Republicans, The country will learn the hard way that socialism does not work. Once Obama gets his tax hikes HE WILL OWN THIS ECONOMY, I don't want to hear Bush's name ever again from a liberal stating this was his fault. This is Obama's economy from now on.
    So if I'm hearing you correctly, whatever happens from the point of Obama getting the concessions from Congress on, is on him?

    I'll bookmark this so in 4 years when (as the CBO, Moody's Analytical, and other organizations) the country has added a record 12-12.3 million jobs, there is a housing boom, the dysfunctional healthcare system is fixed, the GDP has doubled, etc... you can eat a nice helping off hot off the stove crow

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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by General
    Let him go wild I say to my fellow Republicans, The country will learn the hard way that socialism does not work. Once Obama gets his tax hikes HE WILL OWN THIS ECONOMY, I don't want to hear Bush's name ever again from a liberal stating this was his fault. This is Obama's economy from now on.
    it sure is and its been recovering quite well ever since just prior to the debates. the fiscal cliff is the one big obstacle we have to get thru, hopefully the Republicans won't keep trying to leverage our country's well being for their party agendas. i mean you lost, about time you back down to what the country voted for...

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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by rufuspaul
    Those fukcing rich people. Gotta hate them. Shame on them for making all that money and not giving us any of it.

    woe is rich people :

    taxing rich people is a whole lot better than screwing over old people who rely on SS to live...by the same guilt trip you must hate poor people. gotta hate them. shame on them for making a lot less money because they're all supposedly lazy

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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzuki
    it sure is and its been recovering quite well ever since just prior to the debates. the fiscal cliff is the one big obstacle we have to get thru, hopefully the Republicans won't keep trying to leverage our country's well being for their party agendas. i mean you lost, about time you back down to what the country voted for...
    The funny thing is, the recovery is pretty much unstoppable. The 'cliff' would be a major stumbling block but the CBO predicted that even if we go over with no deal, the economy is still due to add 9.6 million jobs in the next 4 years. So no deal would mean a loss of up to 3 million jobs and another recession, but the economy will still chug along. Barry's work during his first term, much to the chagrin of anti-American Civil War reenactor neo-secessionists such as some on this board, saved us from another great depression and put us on the road to a strong recovery.

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    Alpha Tarheel rufuspaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid101


    This old canard? Taxes are lower for rich people than any time in our history. Give us one good reason why their rates can't go back to Clinton levels (the same time we had our last economic boon). Go on, one reason.

    I'm not crying for rich people, but I don't think they should be vilified either. Yeah a few percentage points here and there won't mean the end of the world but what happens after that? Come back the next year and say we still need to squeeze you more? Where does it end?

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: A country cannot tax itself into prosperity.

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