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  1. #76
    Playoff Rondo Doranku's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Indian guy


    How does any run by Kobe match LeBron's in 2010? 29/9/8/FG% .500/TS% .610/PER 29 > is better than Kobe in the years you listed. Don't tell me how LeBron was average in the Boston series. Kobe fared much worse against them a round later.
    Probably because he didn't quit in the second round and he didn't have any 40 win teams to inflate his stats like LeBron did.

    lol @ Kobe faring "much worse". Kobe was averaging ~30 points on 44-45% through 6 games, and then his game 7 tanked his stats. Despite playing horrible in the first half, he still picked it up in the second half and put up 10 points/4 boards in the 4th quarter.

    LeBron, meanwhile, was terrible in games 4-6 of the series after the Cavs had a 2-1 lead w/ homecourt advantage. Game 6 is a prime example of empty stats. Dude was skying over teammates for rebounds, then playing passively (what a shock) on the offensive end and finishing 8-21 from the field.

    And we all know what happened in game 5...
    Last edited by Doranku; 07-06-2011 at 04:35 AM.

  2. #77
    7-time NBA All-Star
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Indian guy


    How does any run by Kobe match LeBron's in 2010? 29/9/8/FG% .500/TS% .610/PER 29 > is better than Kobe in the years you listed. Don't tell me how LeBron was average in the Boston series. Kobe fared much worse against them a round later.
    What a moron.

    First of all, Lebron completely choking or quitting(was convinced he quit at first, but after this year's finals, I'm not so sure) in 3 consecutive games severely hurts his playoff run. More importantly, it's much more difficult to maintain that through a run to the finals than 2 series. And it was 2 rounds later, plus Kobe's series vs Boston was clearly superior to Lebron's, I don't give a fuck what the stats are. When you have 3 consecutive games like Lebron did to end that series, it makes the stats pretty irrelevant.

  3. #78
    NBA All-star chazzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Indian guy


    How does any run by Kobe match LeBron's in 2010? 29/9/8/FG% .500/TS% .610/PER 29 > is better than Kobe in the years you listed. Don't tell me how LeBron was average in the Boston series. Kobe fared much worse against them a round later.
    Serious? You're comparing a "run" of 2 series, including one where he checked out early, to multiple great runs to the finals? He played 8th seeded Bulls and then played half a series against Boston. Whether you like it or not, those overall numbers aren't gonna fool anyone into thinking that was some all time great playoff run

  4. #79
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Lebron playing bad in the finals is an understatement.

    A franchise player plays bad sometimes but even when they do, no-one watching would say "hey I wish that guy never turned up to the game today". With lebron in the finals, I bet all his fans wished he never turned up

  5. #80
    Keep it tight for me The-Legend-24's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurai Swoosh
    Good point. Kobe lost in two Finals. Didn't play particularly well in 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2010.

    Needs to polish up some skills, lose some weight so he can still take people off the dribble, keep his defensive intensity up (played bad defense in the Finals) and you're absolutely right.
    In 00 Kobe was in what? 4th year in the league and 2nd as a starter, and and in 2010 he was averaging 34 ppg 46% before game 7.

  6. #81
    NBA sixth man of the year Indian guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Doranku
    Probably because he didn't quit in the second round
    Myth.

    He played one weird half, nothing more.

    and he didn't have any 40 win teams to inflate his stats like LeBron did.
    Believe me, you'd rather have LeBron face Chicago than ******* like Utah and Phoenix who couldn't guard a chair. LeBron's numbers would be better against those teams.

    lol @ Kobe faring "much worse". Kobe was averaging 33 points on 45% through 5 games
    The ****? . He averaged 30 ppg on 42% shooting through the first 5 games.

    and then his game 7 tanked his stats.
    Uhh, no. He was inefficient the entire series, and never more so than with the game on the line. Gong 11-40(28%) in the 4th qtrs of the series.

    LeBron, meanwhile, was terrible in games 4-6 of the series after the Cavs had a 2-1 lead w/ homecourt advantage.
    He had 2 bad games the entire series in Game 4 & 5. Still finished the series with much better numbers across the board than Kobe. If he wasn't stuck with a sh!t cast, he would have beaten Boston - like he did this year, despite being far from the player he was last year.

    Game 6 is a prime example of empty stats.
    Just because Cleveland lost? Empty stats are ones that don't really impact the game. LeBron's 27/19/10 was the ONLY reason Game 6 was even competitive.

  7. #82
    Keep it tight for me The-Legend-24's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Indian guy


    How does any run by Kobe match LeBron's in 2010? 29/9/8/FG% .500/TS% .610/PER 29 > is better than Kobe in the years you listed. Don't tell me how LeBron was average in the Boston series. Kobe fared much worse against them a round later.

  8. #83
    Very good NBA starter
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    The 2010 Bulls had a 105.0 DRTG (11th). 2010 Jazz were better defensively.


  9. #84
    7-time NBA All-Star
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    at IndianGuy arguing that Lebron's game 6 vs Boston was good. At no point did he seem to take control of that game. And if you're going to post the stats, why not include the 9 turnovers, or the 8/21 shooting(38%) or 51 TS%.

    Those stats at least start to explain how a 27/19/10 game could be so empty, but it goes beyond that if you watch the game.

    He played very well in games 1 and 3, iirc, was mediocre in game 2 and sucked the last 3 games. So 2 good games in a series that lasted 6 games? Kobe was easily better vs Boston.

  10. #85
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer DMAVS41's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by WeGetRing2012
    Thats just not true. As he come up short during some runs yeah but most players have. But you know without a doubt that he gave 110% at all times. There is no way you can get 5 rings as a main guy without being great when your team needs you the most. Can you say the same about Lebron? Hell no. When it gets tough for him he just quits and heading into his 9th year and still playing like this is not Kobe-like,Jordan-Like, or Greatest basketball player-like.
    I am not questioning Kobe's effort. Not at all.

    I'm simply stating the fact that Kobe has had his fair share of playoff letdowns. Which is true by the way.

    Plenty of them. 03, 04, 06, 08, and 11.....

    And Kobe didn't get 5 rings as the main guy. He got 2. No need to revise history.

  11. #86
    NBA sixth man of the year Indian guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234

    First of all, Lebron completely choking or quitting(was convinced he quit at first, but after this year's finals, I'm not so sure) in 3 consecutive games severely hurts his playoff run.
    This is a MYTH. Watch the games, not Dan Gilbert's mouth. The only weird thing about LeBron's series against Boston is the first half of Game 5, nothing more. Watch those games, and prove me otherwise.

    It's funny how the "quit" accusation was always over Game 5, but after Gilbert's rant, it suddenly became 3 straight games. People's inability to think for themselves never ceases to amazes me.

    More importantly, it's much more difficult to maintain that through a run to the finals than 2 series.
    Based on what? Just the past season LeBron's best series came in the ECF(against the #1 ranked D), and '10 LeBron >> '09 LeBron anyway. No reason why he wouldn't have maintained/improved his play. Especially considering that after Boston, the opponents were only going to get weaker defensively.

    plus Kobe's series vs Boston was clearly superior to Lebron's
    There isn't a single metric out there that supports this. Not raw numbers, not PER, not EFF or heck, even tbe holy clutch numbers. Kobe was just brutal late in games in the Finals.

    I don't give a fuck what the stats are.
    Yeah, why bother with something called facts

    When you have 3 consecutive games like Lebron did to end that series, it makes the stats pretty irrelevant.
    A great player is allowed to have off nights. A couple of games don't negate your entire body of work, and LeBron's in 2010 was pretty darn impressive. In fact, statistically superior to any playoff run in Kobe's life. Your original comment about 01/08/09/10 being "considerably" better than any of LeBron's playoff runs doesn't make sense from any angle.

  12. #87
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer DMAVS41's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
    at IndianGuy arguing that Lebron's game 6 vs Boston was good. At no point did he seem to take control of that game. And if you're going to post the stats, why not include the 9 turnovers, or the 8/21 shooting(38%) or 51 TS%.

    Those stats at least start to explain how a 27/19/10 game could be so empty, but it goes beyond that if you watch the game.

    He played very well in games 1 and 3, iirc, was mediocre in game 2 and sucked the last 3 games. So 2 good games in a series that lasted 6 games? Kobe was easily better vs Boston.
    I agree about Lebron's series not being as good as the stats....although you conveniently ignore Lebron shutting down Pierce for most of the series.

    But you can't be serious about the bold. Easily better? Kobe has very bad in that series and even worse in the 4th qtrs. If not for Fisher saving his ass in game 3 or artest/gasol/fisher saving his ass in game 7 they lose that series.

    Was Kobe better? Not sure. Debatable. Easily better? No freaking way. Especially because Kobe has horrendous in the 4th qtr and crunch time throughout the series.


    Edit: And lets not ignore that Perkins missed the last two games against the Lakers. He mattered. You say stats don't matter, well, Perkins being out made the Celtics a worse team. Noticeably worse I might add.
    Last edited by DMAVS41; 07-06-2011 at 05:05 AM.

  13. #88
    NBA sixth man of the year Indian guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
    at IndianGuy arguing that Lebron's game 6 vs Boston was good.
    It was a solid game. Laughing won't change that. Try harder.

    At no point did he seem to take control of that game.
    Wait, so any game where you don't "take control" is automatically a bad game? Awesome logic

    Those stats at least start to explain how a 27/19/10 game could be so empty
    An empty stat line is one that doesn't really impact the game. LeBron's play that night on the other hand was the only thing keeping Cleveland competitive.

    He played very well in games 1 and 3, iirc, was mediocre in game 2 and sucked the last 3 games. So 2 good games in a series that lasted 6 games?
    He had 2 good/great games(Game 1 & 3), 2 average/solid ones(Game 2 & 6) and 2 bad ones(Game 4 & 5). Defensively, he shut down Boston's best scorer all series.

    Kobe was easily better vs Boston.
    Even though he was statistically inferior in every way imaginable and didn't do jack in the 4th qtrs to boot. Sorry, you fail.

  14. #89
    NBA sixth man of the year Indian guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by chazzy
    Serious? You're comparing a "run" of 2 series, including one where he checked out early, to multiple great runs to the finals?
    Great runs are made by teams, not individual players. Are you telling me LeBron in Kobe's position wouldn't replicate the success LA had?

    At the end of the day, the only way we can compare their playoff runs is through their individual play.

    those overall numbers aren't gonna fool anyone into thinking that was some all time great playoff run
    Never said it was, just like Kobe's wasn't. What is true though is LeBron was SPECTACULAR for the most part in the 2010 playoffs. If Kobe has been "considerably" better many times, then I'd at least like to see 1 playoff run by him with superior production.

  15. #90
    7-time NBA All-Star
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    Default Re: The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Indian guy
    This is a MYTH. Watch the games, not Dan Gilbert's mouth. The only weird thing about LeBron's series against Boston is the first half of Game 5, nothing more. Watch those games, and prove me otherwise.
    I did watch the games, I'm not convinced you did though. Sorry, but when a player like Lebron who had just dominated for 2 seasons like few in history have has 3 consecutive games like that, it makes me wonder at least.


    It's funny how the "quit" accusation was always over Game 5, but after Gilbert's rant, it suddenly became 3 straight games. People's inability to think for themselves never ceases to amazes me.
    I've been consistent since the end of game 6. Others were saying it then as well. I never emphasized game 5. That was the worst, but I was critical of him for the 3 consecutive games, and this is coming from someone who always defends his 2009 series vs Orlando.

    Based on what? Just the past season LeBron's best series came in the ECF(against the #1 ranked D), and '10 LeBron >> '09 LeBron anyway. No reason why he wouldn't have maintained/improved his play. Especially considering that after Boston, the opponents were only going to get weaker defensively.
    It's more difficult to maintain great numbers over a long sample size, it doesn't mean it can't be done, but you can't compare numbers from 2 series to 4. If you want to do that, then compare Kobe's 2010 series vs Utah and Phoenix to Lebron's 2010 run, or 2001 vs Sacramento and San Antonio, 2008(first 2, even 3 rounds he put up incredible numbers), 2009 vs Utah and Denver. Take those back to back series by Kobe rather than the 4 series playoff runs and his numbers look a lot better.

    There isn't a single metric out there that supports this. Not raw numbers, not PER, not EFF or heck, even tbe holy clutch numbers. Kobe was just brutal late in games in the Finals.
    So basketball has to be measured in numbers? And I've never cared about PER anyway. Not everyone has to think like a nerd when it comes to sports.

    Yeah, why bother with something called facts
    Yeah, why bother watching the games when you can just check the boxscore.

    And again, you left out key numbers such as turnovers and shooting percentage.

    A great player is allowed to have off nights. A couple of games don't negate your entire body of work, and LeBron's in 2010 was pretty darn impressive. In fact, statistically superior to any playoff run in Kobe's life. Your original comment about 01/08/09/10 being "considerably" better than any of LeBron's playoff runs doesn't make sense from any angle.
    No, superstars will receive criticism for having 3 consecutive games like that in the playoffs, it's how it is and how it will always be. And yes, those runs by Kobe are obviously better than Lebron's 2010 "run" which consisted of 1 great series and 2 impressive games in a 6 game series that he lost.

    I'm done with you, this is pathetic, anyone who thinks what Lebron did in the 2010 playoffs is comparable to Kobe in the '01, '08, '09 or '10 playoffs clearly has an agenda.

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