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  1. #16
    College superstar JMT's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    Yes, as would a long list of "old time weak era" bigs like Gilmore, Lanier, Reed, Beatty, Bellamy to name a few.

    I would include Wilt but, since he has been deceased for 14 years, he would likely only be the second or third best.
    Last edited by JMT; 12-11-2013 at 02:07 PM.

  2. #17
    I usually hit open layups
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAQisGOAT
    Definitely.

    Imho he's the GOAT m2m post-defender. Also really good help D, great rebounder, capable scorer, really athletic, built as a beast, could pass the ball.

    Absolutely agree. I think Chamberlain was the all time greatest rim protector, but Wilt had a tendency to hang closer to the paint rather than stick to his man away from the paint, whereas Nate stuck to his man. If his man tried to go around him, he'd beat him to the basket and often times block his shot. I think Nate could use a wee bit of polish on his offensive game, but regardless, he'd be by far and away the best big man in the game today.

  3. #18
    Learning to shoot layups
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    replace any version of dwight or hibbert with peak or near-peak thurmond and i think those teams win the title more often than not

  4. #19
    NBA Legend LAZERUSS's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    Originally Posted by Djoker
    I looked through some their H2H data and Nate was not just defending Wilt well but outrebounded him many times. From 68-69 onwards, Nate also outscored him in virtually every game even though their regular season averages were very much on par the first few years.

    1964-1965 (3 games)

    Wilt averaged 26.7 ppg on exactly 50% shooting. He had individual games of 34 points on 63% shooting, 24 points on 33% shooting, and 22 points on 53% shooting. Wilt won 1-0 in the rebounding battle where we have the numbers.

    1965-1966 (9 games)

    Wilt averaged 28.6 ppg in his H2H's against Nate. He had a game of 45 points on 53% shooting and another of 38, 33 and 30 points but he also had games of 26, 25 (on 36% shooting), 23, 22, and even 15 points. It's likely he shot below 50%.

    In 6 games where we have Nate's rebounds, the battle on the boards was 4-2 Wilt.

    1966-1967 (6 games)

    Wilt averaged 20.8 ppg with just one game of 30 points (albeit a triple double with 26 rebounds and 13 assists!). In 3 games that we have FG% Wilt shot a cumulative 51.1%. He shot 68.3% for the season.

    In 5 games where we Nate's rebounds, 2-2 and the the fifth game was tied.

    1967 Finals (6 games)

    Wilt averaged 17.7 ppg on 56.0% shooting but just 30.6% from the line. Nate outrebounded Wilt in just one game but he was close throughout. Wilt took it by a paper-thin 28.5 to 26.6 rpg margin over the whole series.

    1967-1968 (4 games)

    Nate completely outplayed Chamberlain in what was Wilt's MVP season.

    In four games Wilt averaged 13.3 ppg, 23.8 rpg, and 7.0 apg on 37.9% shooting. A far cry from his season average of 24.3 ppg on 59.5% shooting. Nate averaged 15.0 ppg and 26.8 rpg as the Warriors won the season series 3-1. The rebounding battle was 2-2 but Nate won one game by a 33-17 margin!

    1968-1969 (6 games)

    Wilt averaged 13.7 ppg and 23.7 rpg on 54.7% shooting. The rebounding battle was 3-3. Nate averaged 17.3 ppg and 23.8 rpg.

    1969 WD Round 1 (6 games)

    Wilt averaged 12.0 ppg and 23.5 rpg on 50.0% shooting. The rebounding battle was 4-2 for Wilt. Nate averaged 16.7 ppg and 19.5 rpg.

    1970-1971 (6 games)

    Wilt averaged 10.2 ppg and 18.0 rpg on 55.3% shooting. The rebounding battle was 3-2 Thurmond with one tie. Thurmond averaged 22.7 ppg and 17.3 rpg against Chamberlain as well.

    1971-1972 (6 games)

    Wilt averaged 6.8 ppg and 18.0 rpg on 67.8% shooting. The rebounding battle was 3-2 Wilt with one tie. Nate averaged 18.3 ppg and 16.7 rpg.

    1972-1973 (7 games)

    Wilt averaged 5.3 ppg and 16.6 rpg on 68.4% shooting. Thurmond won the rebounding battles 7-0 and averaged 12.6 ppg and 21.6 rpg.

    1973 WCF (5 games)

    Wilt averaged 7.0 ppg and 23.6 rpg on 61.1% shooting. Wilt won the rebounding battle 3-2. Nate averaged 15.8 ppg and 17.2 rpg.


    Overall out of their 47 regular season H2H's:

    - Nate outscored Wilt 26 times, Wilt outscored Nate 20 times, and one game was a tie

    - for the 41 games we have Nate's rebounds he won the battle 21 times, lost 17 times, and three games were a tie :bow:

    - Nate held Wilt far below his averages; you can look up every single season and in most cases he was 6-7 ppg and 5+% below his averages


    Overall out of their 17 playoff H2H's:

    - each man outscored the other 8 times and one game was a tie

    - Wilt won the rebounding battle 12 times and Nate won 5 times but the margins were thin

    - Wilt's scoring volume and efficiency were drastically reduced

    - Nate shot a very poor FG% against Wilt around 37% overall in their H2H's
    This is somewhat deceptive.

    For example, in Chamberlain's 65-66 season, he outscored Thurmond in H2H games, 8-1. And some by huge margins, such as 26-9, 30-10, 33-17, 38-15, and 45-13. Overall, in their nine H2H games, Wilt outscored Nate 28.6 ppg to 16.1 ppg, which includes Thurmond's 30-15 margin in his lone "win."

    In Wilt's "scoring prime", he battled Thurmond in 12 H2H games, and held an 11-1 scoring edge. Then, carry these H2H's thru Chamberlain's 66-67 season, and including their six Finals games (in which Wilt outscored Thurmond 5-1), and the margin jumps to 21-3-1. And keep in mind that Thurmond had his greatest individual season in 66-67 (and he also finished 2nd behind Chamberlain in the MVP voting.)

    And while we don't Nate's FG%'s in many of the games, we do have them in their three playoff series. In those three playoff series, Chamberlain outshot Thurmond by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and in the '67 Finals, by a staggering .560 to .343 margin.

    We also do not have many of their rebounding H2H's, but just using the playoffs as an example, Wilt outrebounded Nate in their three playoff series by margins of 28.5 to 26.7 rpg; 23.5 to 19.5 rpg, and 23.6 to 17.2 rpg.

    In any case, a "prime scoring" Chamberlain just crushed Thurmond. From his 67-68 season on, Wilt dramatically reduced his shooting against Nate. And, of course, Wilt blew out his knee early in the 69-70 season, and was never the same offensive force again.


    BTW, how about Nate against the 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier?

    From Lanier's rookie season, 70-71, thru Nate's last outstanding season, 73-74, the two went H2H 20 times. Thurmond outscored Lanier in those 20 games, 12-6-2, which included beatdowns of 30-14, 42-27, and 43-13.


    Furthermore, Thurmond's and Willis Reed's careers basically mirrored each, and in their 46 H2H games, Nate held a 16.6 to 14.9 ppg margin.

    He and Russell went at 42 times, and Thurmond held a 16.3 to 12.2 ppg margin. BTW, Thurmond had two games over 30 (both of 34.)

    Overall, Thurmond and Bellamy battled in 62 H2H games, and Nate outscored him by a 16.2 to 15.4 ppg margin. However, Chamberlain was actually the center in the majority of the H2H's in 63-64 and 64-65. And from 66-67 on, Thurmond held a decisive advantage of 28-6-2. And some of those were by huge margins. In fact, Thurmond held a 7-0 advantage in 30+ point games, with a high of 36.

    And, while a prime Kareem outscored Thurmond in their 50 H2H's, Nate dramatically reduced KAJ's scoring. In some regular season H2H's, Thurmond outscored Kareem, as well as outscoring KAJ in the 71-72 playoffs (which also was Abdul-Jabbar's greatest statistical regular season.) Furthermore, Kareem had as many games of under 20 points, seven, as over 30. In fact, KAJ's high game, in those 50 H2H's, was only 34 points. Overall, KAJ shot an eye-popping .440 against Nate in those 50 H2H's, including .439 in their three playoff series (covering 16 games.) And in their last two playoff series, KAJ shot .405 (in a series in which Nate outscored and outshot him), and .428.

    Thurmond certainly has a case as the greatest one-on-one defensive center in NBA history.

  5. #20
    Decent playground baller Bobby13's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    This really isn't fair. He's one of the GOAT defensive bigs with every bit of evidence to back up that claim. And you're comparing him to the Noahs, Gasols and Howards of this era?

  6. #21
    NBA Legend LAZERUSS's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    BTW...

    Listen to Wilt at near 45 second mark...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BDd7jM4zYs

    He claims that Nate had about an inch on him in standing reach.

  7. #22
    Game. Set. Match. bdreason's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    Dwight isn't a bad comparison. He was better than Dwight though. A lot tougher too but it's a different game these days.

  8. #23
    NBA Legend LAZERUSS's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    Quote Originally Posted by JMT
    Yes, as would a long list of "old time weak era" bigs like Gilmore, Lanier, Reed, Beatty, Bellamy to name a few.

    I would include Wilt but, since he has been deceased for 14 years, he would likely only be the second or third best.
    I have said it before, but prop Wilt's corpse up under the basket, and I suspect that there are a number of starting centers in today's NBA that wouldn't be able to score against it.


    As for that list...you can McAdoo, Cowens, Hayes, and Unseld to it. As well as Russell and Kareem.

  9. #24
    NBA rookie of the year Psileas's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    I have said it before, but prop Wilt's corpse up under the basket, and I suspect that there are a number of starting centers in today's NBA that wouldn't be able to score against it.


    As for that list...you can McAdoo, Cowens, Hayes, and Unseld to it. As well as Russell and Kareem.
    I think Wilt's statue would do a good job itself.

  10. #25
    College superstar JMT's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    Quote Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
    I have said it before, but prop Wilt's corpse up under the basket, and I suspect that there are a number of starting centers in today's NBA that wouldn't be able to score against it.


    As for that list...you can McAdoo, Cowens, Hayes, and Unseld to it. As well as Russell and Kareem.

    I'm so old, I don't think of those guys as old timers.

  11. #26
    NBA rookie of the year Psileas's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    Quote Originally Posted by JMT
    I'm so old, I don't think of those guys as old timers.
    They say age is just a number.
    "Old" is just a word. I often think in astronomy terms and I don't find 1,000 BC to be a particularly "old" age. It's only a bit more than 1 million days, whereas dinosaurs disappeared at an age 22,000 times older...

  12. #27
    Knicks all da way imdaman99's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    He'd be the best center in the league and he would offer security to Lebron, as he would have a worse hairline. And someone as manly as him, Lebron could follow in his footsteps

  13. #28
    NBA All-star Nash's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    ffs look at the tiny people he's battling with in the post in that video.

  14. #29
    NBA Legend LAZERUSS's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?

    Speaking of the Nate-Wilt H2H's...

    Once again, Chamberlain dramatically reduced his shooting in his 66-67 season. But in one early season encounter, there was a hint of what Wilt was capable of, even against Nate the Great...

    In Wayne Lynch's book, Season of the 76ers...page 69...

    San Francisco, featuring the deadeye shooting of Rick Barry and rebounding power of Nate Thurmond, gave the 76ers major trouble. So much that early in the second half, Hannum had to abandon his plan of Chamberlain as playmaker, pushing his team to send assists Wilt's way and turn him into a scorer again.

    It worked. Wilt slammed home 24 points in the second half, finishing with 30 overall, plus 26 rebounds and a dozen blocked shots to spark a 134-129 win.

  15. #30
    NBA lottery pick jongib369's Avatar
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    Default Re: [VIDEO] Nate Thurmond - would he be the best bigman in this current era?




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