Why Wilt Chamberlain's scoring stats shrinked that much in the playoffs?

[Mr Feeny]

No Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest player of alltime. No player has ever dominated his peers like mid 60s Wilt. Where are Jordan's 30 point 27 rebound games? Where are his 60/30 games? The Wilt bashers try to say that Wilt is a choker, but what about Wilt's 45/27 performance in a do or die Finals game? There is Wilt "the choker" for you. And of course these Wilt bashers don't even mention that Wilt outscored, outrebounded, and outshot Bill Russell in all their H2H series.

Again, you're going down the same path as Lazeruss. 45 points in a finals fame is terrific and deserves ample credit. We are talking about Wilt's finals career as a whole. There weew several other game 7's in which Phili lost by a few points and Wilt missed double digit free throws. Nobody is bringing those up because focusing on a sinfle game whether Wilt dominated in oe struggled in, isnt our focus here.
For a wreckinf machine who scored at will in the regular season, he just wasnt able to replicate that in the playoffs for some reason. ain the finals, his scoring dropped to 18ppg. Dwyane Wade averaged more than that during the kast three finals for Miami and yet his impact is denigrated by Lebron fans. Lets put that in perspective. Wilt wasnt able to contrivure as much as this shell of his former self Wade. That's mindboggling.

[Angel Face]

Lebron taking notes from the legends.

[LAZERUSS]

Again, you're going down the same path as Lazeruss. 45 points in a finals fame is terrific and deserves ample credit. We are talking about Wilt's finals career as a whole. There weew several other game 7's in which Phili lost by a few points and Wilt missed double digit free throws. Nobody is bringing those up because focusing on a sinfle game whether Wilt dominated in oe struggled in, isnt our focus here.
For a wreckinf machine who scored at will in the regular season, he just wasnt able to replicate that in the playoffs for some reason. ain the finals, his scoring dropped to 18ppg. Dwyane Wade averaged more than that during the kast three finals for Miami and yet his impact is denigrated by Lebron fans. Lets put that in perspective. Wilt wasnt able to contrivure as much as this shell of his former self Wade. That's mindboggling.

Again....(Thanks to Psileas)

OK, time to blow up the "choker" myth a bit more analytically: Wilt's regular season (RS) vs playoff (PO) scoring season by season vs the same opponent:

1960:
vs Nationals-- RS: 38, PO: 38.7 (adv. PO)
vs Celtics-- RS: 39.9, PO: 30.5 (adv. RS)

1961:
vs Nationals-- RS: 39.9, PO: 37 (adv. RS)

1962:
vs Nationals-- RS: 48, PO: 37 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 41.7 (incl. games that Russell missed), PO: 33.6 (adv. RS)

1964:
vs Hawks-- RS: 32.8, PO: 38.6 (adv. PO)
vs Celtics-- RS: 29.1, PO: 29.2 (adv. PO)

1965 (playing for Sixers):
vs Royals-- RS: 36.8, PO: 27.8 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 25.0, PO: 30.1 (adv. PO)

1966:
vs Celtics-- RS: 28.3, PO: 28 (adv. RS)

1967:
vs Royals-- RS: 28.6, PO: 28 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 20.3, PO: 21.6 (adv. PO)
vs Warriors-- RS: 20.7, PO: 17.7 (adv. RS)

1968:
vs Knicks-- RS: 22.6, PO: 25.5 (adv. PO)
vs Celtics-- RS: 17.1, PO: 22.1 (adv. PO)

1969:
vs Warriors-- RS: 12.6, PO: 12.0 (adv. RS)
vs Hawks-- RS: 17.9, PO: 19.2 (adv. PO)
vs Celtics-- RS: 16.3, PO: 11.7 (adv. RS)

1970:
Too small RS samples

1971:
vs Bulls-- RS: 21.2, PO: 15.7 (adv. RS)
vs Bucks-- RS: 23.2, PO: 22 (adv. RS)

1972:
vs Bulls-- RS: 8.8, PO: 14.5 (adv. PO)
vs Bucks-- RS: 13.0, PO: 10.8 (adv. RS)
vs Knicks-- RS: 16.8, PO: 19.4 (adv. PO)

1973:
vs Bulls-- RS: 11.5, PO: 12 (adv. PO)
vs Warriors-- RS: 5.7, PO: 7 (adv. PO)
vs Knicks-- RS: 9.3, PO: 11.6 (adv. PO)

RS vs PO: 13-13

Falls by 5+ ppg: 5
Raises by 5+ ppg: 4

Seems pretty even to me. Choker? I don't think so.

Wilt faced RUSSELL and the Celtics EIGHT times in the post-season.

Let's compare MJ and Shaq's numbers against their biggest playoff rivals shall we?

MJ vs the Pistons:

87-88: Regular season against NBA. 35.0 ppg on .535 FG%
Against Detroit: 27.4 ppg on .491 FG%

88-89: Regular season. 32.5 ppg on .538 FG%
Against Detroit: 29.7 ppg on .460 FG%

89-90: Regular season. 33.6 ppg on .526 FG%
Against Detroit: 32.1 ppg on .467 FG%

90-91: Regular season. 31.5 ppg on .539 FG%
Against Detroit: 29.8 ppg on .535 FG%


Shaq vs. San Antonio:

98-99: Regular season. 26.3 ppg on .576 FG%
Against the Spurs: 23.8 ppg on .493 FG%

00-01: Regular season. 28.7 ppg on .572 FG%
Against the Spurs: 27.0 ppg on .541 FG%

01-02: Regular season. 27.2 ppg on .579 FG%
Against the Spurs: 21.4 ppg on .447 FG%

02-03: Regular season. 27.5 ppg on .574 FG%
Against the Spurs: 25.3 ppg on .559 FG%

03-04: Regular season. 21.5 ppg on .584 FG%
Against the Spurs. 22.5 ppg on .635 FG%

I see MUCH of the same "decline" from MJ and Shaq.

BTW, Chamberlain faced a HOF starting center in 105 of his 160 post-season games, and a multiple all-star in another 26.So he was either facing a very good, up to an all-time great, in 131 of his 160 post-season games. Included were 12 games against Reed (and another 6 in which Reed was a PF); 10 against Bellamy; 11 against a peak Kareem; 16 against Thurmond (just ask KAJ about him); and then... 49 games against Russell.

[Psileas]

As shocking as that is, he is even worse in the finals. An 18 ppg scorer. The guy was the definition of a choker.

22 ppg for a playoff career is just pathetic for someone who is supposedly one of the best scorers in the game.

Wilt haters, the definition of tl;dr

1960:
vs Nationals-- RS: 38, PO: 38.7 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])
vs Celtics-- RS: 39.9, PO: 30.5 (adv. RS)

1961:
vs Nationals-- RS: 39.9, PO: 37 (adv. RS)

1962:
vs Nationals-- RS: 48, PO: 37 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 41.7 (incl. games that Russell missed), PO: 33.6 (adv. RS)

1964:
vs Hawks-- RS: 32.8, PO: 38.6 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])
vs Celtics-- RS: 29.1, PO: 29.2 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])

1965 (playing for Sixers):
vs Royals-- RS: 36.8, PO: 27.8 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 25.0, PO: 30.1 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])

1966:
vs Celtics-- RS: 28.3, PO: 28 (adv. RS)

1967:
vs Royals-- RS: 28.6, PO: 28 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 20.3, PO: 21.6 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])
vs Warriors-- RS: 20.7, PO: 17.7 (adv. RS)

1968:
vs Knicks-- RS: 22.6, PO: 25.5 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])
vs Celtics-- RS: 17.1, PO: 22.1 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])

1969:
vs Warriors-- RS: 12.6, PO: 12.0 (adv. RS)
vs Hawks-- RS: 17.9, PO: 19.2 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])
vs Celtics-- RS: 16.3, PO: 11.7 (adv. RS)

1970:
Too small RS samples

1971:
vs Bulls-- RS: 21.2, PO: 15.7 (adv. RS)
vs Bucks-- RS: 23.2, PO: 22 (adv. RS)

1972:
vs Bulls-- RS: 8.8, PO: 14.5 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])
vs Bucks-- RS: 13.0, PO: 10.8 (adv. RS)
vs Knicks-- RS: 16.8, PO: 19.4 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])

1973:
vs Bulls-- RS: 11.5, PO: 12 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])
vs Warriors-- RS: 5.7, PO: 7 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])
vs Knicks-- RS: 9.3, PO: 11.6 (adv. [COLOR="Green"]PO[/COLOR])

RS vs PO: 13-13

Falls by 5+ ppg: 5
Raises by 5+ ppg: 4

Seems pretty even to me. Choker? I don't think so.

[aj1987]

No Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest player of alltime. No player has ever dominated his peers like mid 60s Wilt. Where are Jordan's 30 point 27 rebound games? Where are his 60/30 games? The Wilt bashers try to say that Wilt is a choker, but what about Wilt's 45/27 performance in a do or die Finals game? There is Wilt "the choker" for you. And of course these Wilt bashers don't even mention that Wilt outscored, outrebounded, and outshot Bill Russell in all their H2H series.

Where are Wilt's 6 rings? The GOAT and GOAT scorer averaged 23 PPG in the playoffs? Wilt is not even the GOAT center, let alone player.

[Dr.J4ever]

Where are Wilt's 6 rings? The GOAT and GOAT scorer averaged 23 PPG in the playoffs? Wilt is not even the GOAT center, let alone player.

Good point. While Wilt did indeed dominate the reg.season, he didn't do as well in the Playoffs. You are right. 2 rings does not equal 6 rings . To me, KAJ was the greatest ever if you combine everything you want from a center. Plus, the guy won a half dozen chips with MVPs to boot. GOAT.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Where are Wilt's 6 rings? The GOAT and GOAT scorer averaged 23 PPG in the playoffs? Wilt is not even the GOAT center, let alone player.

Rings are TEAM accomplishments. Wilt Chamberlain has been to 12 Conference Finals, 6 NBA Finals, and was an eyelash away from 4-5 more rings. Wilt in his scoring prime averaged 32.6 PPG and had 4 50-point games in the playoffs. Where are Jordan's games where he outrebounded his opposition by 10+ RPG and held alltime great centers to 40% shooting?

[dankok8]

I wouldn't go as far as to call Wilt a complete choker in the playoffs but he had a lot of underwhelming postseasons and big games. In his prime you can say he maintained or slightly elevated his game in '64, '65, and '67. In all other years his mostly level went down in the playoffs.

And while Psileas's post shows 13-13 even situation do note that in several years he declined 7-10 ppg from the regular season to the postseason while the reverse never happened. So his performance did definitely go down even by that analysis. Not to mention his FG% and FT% often plummeted as well.

Also there are mistakes I found... Wilt averaged 25.4 ppg against Russell in the 64-65 regular season not 25.0 ppg. And also 39.7 ppg in the 61-62 regular season, not 41.7 ppg. It seems he didn't include games Russell missed?

[aj1987]

Rings are TEAM accomplishments. Wilt Chamberlain has been to 12 Conference Finals, 6 NBA Finals, and was an eyelash away from 4-5 more rings. Wilt in his scoring prime averaged 32.6 PPG and had 4 50-point games in the playoffs. Where are Jordan's games where he outrebounded his opposition by 10+ RPG and held alltime great centers to 40% shooting?

Are you stupid? MJ is a 6'5" SG. What about Wilt's FT's in close games? Games that were decided by 5 or fewer points, in which Wilt missed ~10 FT's?

[COLOR="White"]lol[/COLOR]

[dankok8]

And the whole "within an eyelash of X more rings" is a bogus argument. Virtually all pantheon players were within an eyelash of many more rings and suffered several close losses in the playoffs. Just off the top of my mind:

MJ in '89 and '90
Kareem in '72, '74, and '84
Shaq in '05
Duncan in '04, '06, and '13

etc.

Players have to be judged by what they achieved not what they COULD HAVE achieved in some hypothetical situation. Bottom line is Wilt also RARELY made plays to help his team win those close games ('65 Game 7 being the sole exception...).

[Deuce Bigalow]

Are you stupid? MJ is a 6'5" SG. What about Wilt's FT's in close games? Games that were decided by 5 or fewer points, in which Wilt missed ~10 FT's?

[COLOR="White"]lol[/COLOR]

Wilt shot the highest FG% in games 7s in NBA history. Where are Jordan's 9 FG% titles?

[houston]

And the whole "within an eyelash of X more rings" is a bogus argument. Virtually all pantheon players were within an eyelash of many more rings and suffered several close losses in the playoffs. Just off the top of my mind:

MJ in '89 and '90
Kareem in '72, '74, and '84
Shaq in '05
Duncan in '04, '06, and '13

etc.

Players have to be judged by what they achieved not what they COULD HAVE achieved in some hypothetical situation. Bottom line is Wilt also RARELY made plays to help his team win those close games ('65 Game 7 being the sole exception...).

I feel that

[r0drig0lac]

Because of him...

1b.

[AbeVigodaLive]

If your team is down 3 - 2 in the NBA Finals... you want Wilt Chamberlain on your team. He'll likely score 40 in an easy win.

If your team is tied 3 - 3 and you need your best player to play up to his standards or even relatively close to how he dominated in Game 6.... ummm... errr... ummmm... you might want to look elsewhere.

[Dr.J4ever]

Stats are highly overrated here in ISH.. The point of the whole thing is to win the game. The stats you produce are simply a means to an end---winning, and not an end in itself..This is why Bill Russel fans will always feel Russel was the better of the two players.

Stats are often a by product of a team's philosophy, structure, etc.. Look at Kevin D with the Thunder recently.. He's been scoring like 10 more PPG a game because of Westb absence.. Teammates and coaches heavily influence your stats and there are many more examples of this. PPG is not some unchangeable number that stands for eternity. Players who KNOW HOW to play within a winning system while producing less stats have to be given more credit here in ISH.. Not likely to happen as we are enamored with individuals, and not the team.