Tim Duncan the 2nd greatest player of all time?

[oolalaa]

Can a legitimate argument be made that Timmy is the 2nd greatest player in NBA history? (Behind only Jordan)

If not, why the **** not? It seems to me that he's won more with less than just about every other all time great. 4 championships and 4 FMVPs (Robbed '07), his best teammates have been a past his prime/decrepid Robinson, Tony Parker (Top 150 all time? Maybe.) and Manu Ginobili (Top 200 all time?). I mean....really??

His 2003 peak is one of the very best, and most underrated, ever. He's one of the best post defenders/anchors in history. He's arguably the greatest low post facilitating big-man of all time. One of the great rebounders of his generation. A consistent scorer with phenomenal footwork and a wide array of post moves. A great leader and teammate. A consumate professional who only cares about winning. And that's what he did. Win and win and win. Between '01 and '07 (His extended prime) his Spurs only lost to the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and the '06 Mavs led by a POSESSED Dirk Nowitzki. He led a good/very good but never great small market team deep into the post season year after year after year.


I'm not saying he is the 2nd best of all time, but NO ONE EVER ranks him that high. Ever! I think that's a little strange. Surely he has a reasonably strong case?

[Odinn]

From "Is Tim Duncan greater than Shaq? Top 5 All Time?" thread;
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=252854

Duncan can be ranked over Shaq. And Shaq can be ranked over Duncan as well.

Duncan: Better career accolades/accomplishments, better intangibles
Shaq: Better peak(prime)

In my goat list right now, both of them are 6th.
But Shaq has the stronger case to be ranked as top 5 ever. Because Shaq's peak is in the goat peak debate. Duncan also was a dominant force on the floor but his peak never will be in the goat peak debate and that's why top 5 would be too high for Duncan.

[iamgine]

Can a legitimate argument be made that Timmy is the 2nd greatest player in NBA history? (Behind only Jordan)

If not, why the **** not? It seems to me that he's won more with less than just about every other all time great. 4 championships and 4 FMVPs (Robbed '07), his best teammates have been a past his prime/decrepid Robinson, Tony Parker (Top 150 all time? Maybe.) and Manu Ginobili (Top 200 all time?). I mean....really??

His 2003 peak is one of the very best, and most underrated, ever. He's one of the best post defenders/anchors in history. He's arguably the greatest low post facilitating big-man of all time. One of the great rebounders of his generation. A consistent scorer with phenomenal footwork and a wide array of post moves. A great leader and teammate. A consumate professional who only cares about winning. And that's what he did. Win and win and win. Between '01 and '07 (His extended prime) his Spurs only lost to the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and the '06 Mavs led by a POSESSED Dirk Nowitzki. He led a good/very good but never great small market team deep into the post season year after year after year.


I'm not saying he is the 2nd best of all time, but NO ONE EVER ranks him that high. Ever! I think that's a little strange. Surely he has a reasonably strong case?

Well when you diminish all his teammates without context, sure he can be.

For one, David Robinson was the 2nd-4th best center in the league in their first title run.

[Foster5k]

Tim Duncan is an all time great, no doubt about it. However, guys like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, Magic, Hakeem, Shaq etc have greater peaks.

[Shepseskaf]

I'm not saying he is the 2nd best of all time, but NO ONE EVER ranks him that high. Ever! I think that's a little strange. Surely he has a reasonably strong case?

Timmeh's in the top 10, but no one ranks him at #2 because he doesn't deserve it.

Would anyone say he deserves to be higher than Kareem or Magic? Not likely.

[elementally morale]

Can a legitimate argument be made that Timmy is the 2nd greatest player in NBA history? (Behind only Jordan)

No.

I'm not saying he is the 2nd best of all time

It is pretty damn clever of you

NO ONE EVER ranks him that high. Ever! I think that's a little strange.

It's not. I consider him a center and I can easily name at least two centers having been greater than him since 1980 (the year I started following the NBA). Both Hakeem and Shaq were better. From the footage I've seen I'm sure Kareem was better than both the above. Wilt, too. I'm not sold on Russell, but he sure does have a stronger case than Duncan. That makes Tim Duncan the 5th best center to have ever played the game. Which is nice, but nowhere near #2 of all time.

And if you claim he was/is a PF... I diseagree, but even if I consider him one, all the above players were still better. I have nothing against TD, but I'd say he is not a lot more than a glorified David Robinson (who was, btw a great-great player).

Surely he has a reasonably strong case?

Not really, see above.

[oolalaa]

From "Is Tim Duncan greater than Shaq? Top 5 All Time?" thread;
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=252854

Bill Russell's peak is NEVER, EVER in the GOAT peak conversation. Yet, many, many people, including myself, consider Russell to be one of the 3 greatest players in NBA history (And better than Wilt, who chucked up arguably greatest best peak ever in '67). Why? Consistent greatness over a decade (Or close to it), in general, trumps Peaks and troughs. A peak is only a coupe of seasons. They should not define a legacy

And, having said that, you, like just about everyone on the planet, sorely underrate Duncan's '02/'03 peak. I would take 2002/2003 Timmy over every player in history outside of peak Jordan, Shaq, Hakeem and Wilt.

[Lebron23]

Hell No. I rank him behind Shaquille O'Neal. Timmy is definitely a top 8 player of all time.

[oolalaa]

Well when you diminish all his teammates without context, sure he can be.

For one, David Robinson was the 2nd-4th best center in the league in their first title run.

And only a top 15 overall player. A sidekick worse than Scottie Pippen.

[Horatio33]

I love Timmy, 8th best of all time but he has no argument for 2nd.

[oolalaa]

Tim Duncan is an all time great, no doubt about it. However, guys like Bill Russell (Nope), Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem (Nope), Magic (Nope), Hakeem, Shaq etc have greater peaks.

Nope.

[oolalaa]

Timmeh's in the top 10, but no one ranks him at #2 because he doesn't deserve it.

Insightful stuff.

[ashlar]

If he was a more selfish player he might have had a shot but he has always had a well balanced team that didn't really allow that.

[oolalaa]

It's not. I consider him a center and I can easily name at least two centers having been greater than him since 1980 (the year I started following the NBA). Both Hakeem and Shaq were better. From the footage I've seen I'm sure Kareem was better than both the above. Wilt, too. I'm not sold on Russell, but he sure does have a stronger case than Duncan. That makes Tim Duncan the 5th best center to have ever played the game. Which is nice, but nowhere near #2 of all time.

And if you claim he was/is a PF... I diseagree, but even if I consider him one, all the above players were still better. I have nothing against TD, but I'd say he is not a lot more than a glorified David Robinson (who was, btw a great-great player).

Hakeem and Shaq had better peaks. So what? Give me Timmy's entire career over both of them. Wilt, too, had a better peak. He also had several troughs ('63, half of '65, '68 (I don't care what the numbers say), '69). And Russ's peak was not better than Duncan's imo, although I would still take Russell over Duncan overall.

[elementally morale]

Insightful stuff.

Stop pretending you want real answers to your so-called 'question'. You asked the question to push an agenda. It doesn't matter what kind of an answer you'll get, because what you really want to hear is something like this: "TD was great, a top5 player all time for sure. It is reasonable to argue he is even better than that".

I'm sorry to burst you bubble, but you won't find many people who will say thing like this.

Next time, instead of imitating a question just tell us what you think. Like this: "I think TD was a lot better tan given credit for. I personally can build a case for him being #2 of all time."

At any rate, if you ask others' opinions at least try pretending you want to hear what they have to say. It's a lot more mature thing to do.