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Old 04-24-2018, 08:18 PM   #16
ImKobe
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by imdaman99
Oh, so now +/- matters?

Dude broke the record for VORP last year, but yeah he's a cancer. Give it a rest OP, go post on reddit instead of stealing all your material from there

it only matters if it supports their narrative. The +/- numbers were hugely in his favor last year against the Rockets but it was still his fault when Oladipo couldn't hold a 10-pt lead for even a minute with him on the bench. He has a few bad Playoff games this year and now everyone wants to talk about him & hate on his numbers.
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by ImKobe
it only matters if it supports their narrative. The +/- numbers were hugely in his favor last year against the Rockets but it was still his fault when Oladipo couldn't hold a 10-pt lead for even a minute with him on the bench. He has a few bad Playoff games this year and now everyone wants to talk about him & hate on his numbers.
Agreed. All these fools on here have an agenda. I can be objective, Russ has been terrible this series.

He has to man up in game 5, force a game 6 and take it from there. Shouldn't be difficult to win a must win game at home. Don't go out meekly.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:01 PM   #18
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

Westbrook is a great player but he doesn't pass the eye-test to me. Last year his team was disjointed and Oladipo was forced to play outside of his game so he was never in rhythm.

This year he has a player like PG who carried the team in Game 1, the best offensive rebounding big on the floor in Adams, an elite scorer in Melo, and etc. He has no excuse to be down 3-1. It seems more to me like he hasn't yet been able to find the balance even though the stats say that the Thunder are virtually unbeatable when he takes 15 FGA's or less.

The stats don't bother me because stats don't tell the whole story especially with a small sample size.

He needs to save himself for the 4th and attack the basket instead of deferring to Melo and PG who are both notorious chokers in clutch situations.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by imdaman99
Agreed. All these fools on here have an agenda. I can be objective, Russ has been terrible this series.

He has to man up in game 5, force a game 6 and take it from there. Shouldn't be difficult to win a must win game at home. Don't go out meekly.

I want PG on the Lakers so I'm all for the Thunder losing in the first round. I still pull for them to win game 5 is because Westbrook needs it, and I honestly don't see them losing 4 in a row to Utah, plus the 2nd round would be a lot more exciting with them in it.
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:36 AM   #20
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by ImKobe
I want PG on the Lakers so I'm all for the Thunder losing in the first round. I still pull for them to win game 5 is because Westbrook needs it, and I honestly don't see them losing 4 in a row to Utah, plus the 2nd round would be a lot more exciting with them in it.
What about PG on the Clippers with Bran ?
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:50 AM   #21
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by PsychoBe
Westbrook is a great player but he doesn't pass the eye-test to me. Last year his team was disjointed and Oladipo was forced to play outside of his game so he was never in rhythm.

This year he has a player like PG who carried the team in Game 1, the best offensive rebounding big on the floor in Adams, an elite scorer in Melo, and etc. He has no excuse to be down 3-1. It seems more to me like he hasn't yet been able to find the balance even though the stats say that the Thunder are virtually unbeatable when he takes 15 FGA's or less.

The stats don't bother me because stats don't tell the whole story especially with a small sample size.

He needs to save himself for the 4th and attack the basket instead of deferring to Melo and PG who are both notorious chokers in clutch situations.

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Old 04-25-2018, 01:54 PM   #22
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by PsychoBe
Westbrook is a great player but he doesn't pass the eye-test to me. Last year his team was disjointed and Oladipo was forced to play outside of his game so he was never in rhythm.

This year he has a player like PG who carried the team in Game 1, the best offensive rebounding big on the floor in Adams, an elite scorer in Melo, and etc. He has no excuse to be down 3-1. It seems more to me like he hasn't yet been able to find the balance even though the stats say that the Thunder are virtually unbeatable when he takes 15 FGA's or less.

The stats don't bother me because stats don't tell the whole story especially with a small sample size.

He needs to save himself for the 4th and attack the basket instead of deferring to Melo and PG who are both notorious chokers in clutch situations.

I have a few issues with your post, but overall I think I probably agree with what you are getting at.

1. Blaming Russ for Dipo last year is not fair imo. Dipo was not right physically and they essentially play the same damn position. What Dipo did on the Thunder last year was right in line with his expected level of play based on what he'd done his first few years. This year has taught us that he needs to be a high usage guard to play at his optimal level...and it is almost impossible to have two guys like that on the roster.

2. Melo is terrible. He hasn't been very good for a long time...and I thought he might be good on this team. I thought he'd be better than Kanter. Man was I wrong about that. I've always thought Melo was way over-rated, but he's been much worse than I expected. He is not elite at anything. He's worthy of 15 minutes a night off the bench against the opposing 2nd unit...nothing more. Just to hammer this home, he's a significantly worse player than Joe Ingles is. Not even close. Most people don't get that.

3. This is a huge blackmark on Russ's career if the series goes continues this way. He's been terrible to date. No excuse not to be better. I do think the Jazz are really quite good, but that doesn't excuse how Russ has played.
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
2. Melo is terrible. He hasn't been very good for a long time...and I thought he might be good on this team. I thought he'd be better than Kanter. Man was I wrong about that. I've always thought Melo was way over-rated, but he's been much worse than I expected. He is not elite at anything. He's worthy of 15 minutes a night off the bench against the opposing 2nd unit...nothing more. Just to hammer this home, he's a significantly worse player than Joe Ingles is. Not even close. Most people don't get that.
I think part of it, is that Russ uses up a lot of shot clock on his touches, and lots of melo's opportunities have been red situations. melo as a third option with no spacing since Russ can't shoot 3's, and no movement or weak side screens, just old style iso ball, in red situations isn't going to lead to 45%+ offense against playoff teams in any playoff series.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

You just cherrypicked some useless stats that he isnt dominating in.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by imdaman99
Oh, so now +/- matters?

Dude broke the record for VORP last year, but yeah he's a cancer. Give it a rest OP, go post on reddit instead of stealing all your material from there

I honest to god hope you are trolling right now...I have a feeling you arnt though

May god help you
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:19 PM   #26
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by BarberSchool
I think part of it, is that Russ uses up a lot of shot clock on his touches, and lots of melo's opportunities have been red situations. melo as a third option with no spacing since Russ can't shoot 3's, and no movement or weak side screens, just old style iso ball, in red situations isn't going to lead to 45%+ offense against playoff teams in any playoff series.

No doubt that is some of it, but Melo has been an inefficient player for a bit now.

He just doesn't do anything of real value for a team in a big minute role.

His value, at this point, seems likely to be an off the bench 15 or so minute a night guy for instant offense.

Just can't do enough to warrant more time than that imo...certainly not on this team.
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I have a few issues with your post, but overall I think I probably agree with what you are getting at.

1. Blaming Russ for Dipo last year is not fair imo. Dipo was not right physically and they essentially play the same damn position. What Dipo did on the Thunder last year was right in line with his expected level of play based on what he'd done his first few years. This year has taught us that he needs to be a high usage guard to play at his optimal level...and it is almost impossible to have two guys like that on the roster.

2. Melo is terrible. He hasn't been very good for a long time...and I thought he might be good on this team. I thought he'd be better than Kanter. Man was I wrong about that. I've always thought Melo was way over-rated, but he's been much worse than I expected. He is not elite at anything. He's worthy of 15 minutes a night off the bench against the opposing 2nd unit...nothing more. Just to hammer this home, he's a significantly worse player than Joe Ingles is. Not even close. Most people don't get that.

3. This is a huge blackmark on Russ's career if the series goes continues this way. He's been terrible to date. No excuse not to be better. I do think the Jazz are really quite good, but that doesn't excuse how Russ has played.

1) Westbrook and Dipo were redundant. It'd be like having Rondo and Lebron on the same team. They'd be stepping on each other toes too much.

2) Melo is still a better pure scorer than 99% of the Jazz's roster. Problem is that he's not allowed to play his game a lot. You can't play him in the post anymore, and he can't keep chucking 3's like he's been doing. But that goes hand in hand with the Thunder's lack of spacing.

3) Overall my point was that Westbrook had the better team from top to bottom. His biggest competition right now is Ricky Rubio, a rookie, and Gobert. You can barely name the rest of the Jazz roster after that. In fact, this might be the most offensively challenged Jazz roster that's ever made the post season. They can't shoot mid range very well, can't bomb 3's at an elite level, don't destroy you in the paint, yet they're up 3-2. It'd be a downright disgrace if Westbrook lost to this team. All this talk about wanting to beat the Warriors but you can't even beat the Jazz?
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by BarberSchool
What about PG on the Clippers with Bran ?

That's also interesting, I'm not sure if the Clippers can free up enough space though, I think they will be able to make room for one max guy, but most teams are capped out so I don't think they can make room for both.
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:41 PM   #29
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by PsychoBe
1) Westbrook and Dipo were redundant. It'd be like having Rondo and Lebron on the same team. They'd be stepping on each other toes too much.

2) Melo is still a better pure scorer than 99% of the Jazz's roster. Problem is that he's not allowed to play his game a lot. You can't play him in the post anymore, and he can't keep chucking 3's like he's been doing. But that goes hand in hand with the Thunder's lack of spacing.

3) Overall my point was that Westbrook had the better team from top to bottom. His biggest competition right now is Ricky Rubio, a rookie, and Gobert. You can barely name the rest of the Jazz roster after that. In fact, this might be the most offensively challenged Jazz roster that's ever made the post season. They can't shoot mid range very well, can't bomb 3's at an elite level, don't destroy you in the paint, yet they're up 3-2. It'd be a downright disgrace if Westbrook lost to this team. All this talk about wanting to beat the Warriors but you can't even beat the Jazz?

Carmelo is a better scorer than evryone but Mitchell and Burks who doesn't even play for them. Too bad there's a lot more to the game than that if you want to win ball games
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:23 PM   #30
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Default Re: Westbrook has the worst ORTG, FG%, 3P% and +/- on the Thunder

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Originally Posted by PsychoBe
1) Westbrook and Dipo were redundant. It'd be like having Rondo and Lebron on the same team. They'd be stepping on each other toes too much.

2) Melo is still a better pure scorer than 99% of the Jazz's roster. Problem is that he's not allowed to play his game a lot. You can't play him in the post anymore, and he can't keep chucking 3's like he's been doing. But that goes hand in hand with the Thunder's lack of spacing.

3) Overall my point was that Westbrook had the better team from top to bottom. His biggest competition right now is Ricky Rubio, a rookie, and Gobert. You can barely name the rest of the Jazz roster after that. In fact, this might be the most offensively challenged Jazz roster that's ever made the post season. They can't shoot mid range very well, can't bomb 3's at an elite level, don't destroy you in the paint, yet they're up 3-2. It'd be a downright disgrace if Westbrook lost to this team. All this talk about wanting to beat the Warriors but you can't even beat the Jazz?

I think we just disagree on Melo. Dude sucks. Pure scorer or whatever you want to call it. He's an inefficient volume scorer that doesn't have a positive impact. This has been going on for years...he's been a sub 50% TS player in the playoffs for some time now. Again, Joe Ingles is a considerably better player than Melo.

Agree about Russ playing like ass and it being a huge blackmark on his career to date if he somehow doesn't turn it around.

However, this Jazz team is way better than you give them credit for. I'm not sure what you are going off of, but they dominated the league since Gobert came back.

I mean, their best player missed 26 games and they still finished with the 4th best SRS in the league.

Are they the Warriors? Of course not, but they are definitely one of the better teams in the league and have been proving that night in night out since mid January.

Last edited by DMAVS41 : 04-25-2018 at 11:27 PM.
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