Wilt Chamberlain would average "25 and 15, EASY"

[Round Mound]

[B]Barkley was 6`4 3/4 or 1,95 mt same as Jordan. Still people don`t believe it after so many years?

PEOPLE CHECK OUT THE GAMES 1st and Compare Him To Other Players like that of Thunder Dan, Mark Aguirre or Chris Mullin who where Legit 6

[Pointguard]

How is that relevant to what I wrote?

Did I bring up Baylor or did you? Do you know why you brought up Baylor? Was I wrong in getting your innuendo?

And I find it ridiculous that in a try to hype up Chamberlain you midgetize Barkley. Since when was Barkley 6'4? Come on, soon people will call him 6'0
I guess Barkley in this pic used high heels;

Barkley could be wearing a healed shoe and gels. Comon, a police lineup?
Barkley himself proclaims he's not 6'5 all the time. Google Jordan and Barkley images. Shouldn't Barkley be taller in one picture???

And Rodman had no offense and he was a PF, all he did was to rebound and defend, when he liked to. And Barkley who was TALLER than 6'4 never came close to some of the rebounding numbers Baylor had, are you going to claim that rebounds weren't inflated back then? And what has Kareem to do with this? Seriously..

I never said the numbers weren't somewhat inflated. The point which escaped you, because you gone got mad hyper, is that your innuendo that Baylor had 18 rebounds per game as if everybody could do it at that time. I bring in Barkley and Rodman to show that height is no factor. Desire to get the rebound is the major factor. A guy like Kareem could get 16rpg on a couple of ocassions when he put his mind to it but his desire wasn't there to do it six or seven years. Every year Wilt averaged a tremendous number because he was flat out dedicated to getting boards. Only Russell has 10 plus great years of rebounding like Wilt and they have like 16 years of proof each. By comparison the other great rebounders aren't always in the mood.

What the hell, I was talking career average and I did it based on the fact that rebounding numbers were inflated compared to modern era due worse FG%, less athletic guards and faster pace.

And I was talking about career average, not prime. And Dwight's highest rebound per game average in a season is 14.5, his career average is 13 rebounds per game and that will go down when he gets older.

Show me where I said otherwise. You keep acting like I am arguing with you and I'm not. I'm just giving you a counter point of view because, basically, you asked for it. If you slow down and stop being defensive you will see that I'm not going at you.

Originally Posted by Pointguard

Wilt is a natural scorer. They are very rare. Few players can hit the 30 ppg mark at all. The ones that can break that barrier three or more times are on one hand. Those who can do it more than 5 times its only Chamberlain and Jordan. Its a threshold that only the elite can get too no matter what time in history. To average 40ppg over seven years means you got great skill. He averaged 35ppg over 24 straight playoff games with defenses just going "gung ho" on him and against teams that are highly ranked all time for defense. So he's in Lebron and Jordan scoring ability there. We can say it was easier for Wilt to score but to do it at unfathomable highs that Jordan could not come close to, don't happen to a guy unless he was very skilled and had great know how on how to score. The most prolific Kareem played against Chamberlain and he was a lot closer to averaging 20ppg for 7 years than 40.

Irrelevant.
I never said that he wasn't a natural scorer but you don't seem to understand that first of all, Wilt's minute per game average would go down and I'm even generous when I gave him a career average of 40 minutes per game when I tried to translate his number to the modern era. No players and especially no centers play 40 minutes per game as an average during their whole careers in the modern era. So I gave him 40 minutes anyway and his average based on 40 minute play would be 26 points and due defensive schemes, more double teams and slower pace I only took away 2-3points as a career average. How is that unfair?

Irrelevant??? Its all relevant. You don't factor in a scorer's mentality? You don't factor in skill level? You don't factor in domination? Scoring ability? Easy basket points? Natural propensity? The defense's reputation? when you compare a scorer's ability??? You think its only about pace? I never said you were off in your estimation.

Wilt in his own era had a career average of 22.5 points per game in the playoffs and that was over 47 minutes per game, something he never would have played in the modern era. I gave him a 40 minute average of playing time instead based on his OWN stats from his OWN era and based on that he'd AVERAGE 19 points. So you think that defensive schemes, more double teams, slower pace and a more guard owned ball game would do Wilt much greater based on scoring?

Once again I never said you were wrong in any of your estimations but I did provide a counter, because you asked for feedback. Wilt would never be used the way he was back then. Hakeem and Shaq were the primary features of their careers as long as they could rebound which was about 12 years. Wilt was featured for about six or seven years but was among the best rebounder for all 16 years. Wilt was such a freak he was ahead of his coaching curve. Today there would be no what do we do with him? How does the game handle extensive domination? What role do the other guys play? Should we recruit shooters? Should we recruit fast guys or defensive guys? There would be one Wilt - a defensive player and offensive player rather than making him two separate players. You think they would say lets stop going to Shaq as the main guy seven years into his career to see if he could be Bill Russell in his prime??? Could you imagine that just before the three peat.

Wilt would be used a lot like Shaq and if he had Nash or D Will you mix in an Amare speed game. The game simply wasn't ready for Wilt at that time so he got waisted big time. The coaches weren't ready for dealing with whole teams trying to stop one guy because that problem never existed before. He couldn't be maximized because he wasn't concieved of before he came. So to control what was beyond their understanding they flat out made him a number two guy. If you have a great strenght you maximize it unless you are under pressure to control it. The coaches went for control because they didn't know how to maximize. History in general tells that story over and over again. Show me in Wilt's career where you see a mix, incorporation or great blend of all of all of his talents.

Wilt did NOT have a better shooting touch than Amare, stop dreaming. And I wrote that I believe he'd average higher than 19 per game in the playoffs in his scoring prime but you got to realize that Wilt's career average in the playoffs when it came to scoring is not as impressive as you're trying to claim it was.

When Amare scored 26ppg he had no touch whatsoever. You don't know what you are talking about at all. ASK the Board. You really think Wilt who was a finesse player in the early years could average 47ppg over 160 games didn't have a very good touch?

Per 36 minutes he had a lower career scoring average in the playoffs than Olajuwon, Shaq, Kareem, Tim Duncan, Patrick Ewing, Moses Malone, Willis Reed.. His regular season average is by far greater than all those guys, even on a 36 minute per game judgement.

Wilt never paced himself for a 36 minute reality and neither did those guys mentioned so its not a reality to take into consideration. If Darko gets tired and crazy after the twentief minute that's his reality and you can't adjust it. Once again, coaching of Chamberlain is a constant story of not being ready for his presence to begin with. In higher pressure situations it manifested itself more. Wilt showed he could dominate offensively just like Shaq in the playoffs. He also showed he could dominate defensively just like Russell. Coaching showed they could never incorporate the two. Wilt was too coachable to say let me be the man. These days no such thing.

[Pointguard]

[QUOTE=Round Mound]



[B]Barkley was 6`4 3/4 or 1,95 mt same as Jordan. Still people don`t believe it after so many years?

PEOPLE CHECK OUT THE GAMES 1st and Compare Him To Other Players like that of Thunder Dan, Mark Aguirre or Chris Mullin who where Legit 6

[jalbert009]

Career 60+ point games:

The rest of the NBA, in it's entire history, had 30 60+ point games...COMBINED.

How about Wilt? 32. The next best players, Kobe and MJ, each had FIVE.


Career 70+ point games:

Aside from Wilt...FOUR (with no player having more than one.)

Wilt? SIX.



Career 30-30 games:

Aside from Chamberlain, there have been 36 30-30 games in NBA history, and Russell is the leader of that group, with 7 (Bellamy and Thurmond are next with 3 each.)

How about Wilt? 132.


40-30 (or 30-40) games: Other than Wilt, the NBA has had 9 40-30 games, with Baylor being the only player to have 2.

Chamberlain? 73


50-30 games: Pettit and Baylor each with 1

Wilt? 32


60-20 games: Aside from Wilt, there have been four (Baylor with 3 and Shaq with 1)

Chamberlain? 28


60-30 games: Baylor with 1

Wilt? 8


40-40 games: There have been 8 in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain had all of them.


50-40 games: Obviously, Wilt would be the only player to have ever have accomplsihed that feat, which he did 5 times.


70-30 games: Chamberlain has the only 2, 78-43 and 73-36 (against Bellamy.)

Thanks for this info! I never knew these facts. This truely makes me wonder why Wilt got voted as number 6 on our ISH top players all time list. Wilt should be #3 or #4.

[KOBE143]

Prime Wilt in today's league will be a 3rd string back up center for the Bobcats..

[jongib369]

Prime Wilt in today's league will be a 3rd string back up center for the Bobcats..

Thanks for blessing my post with your presence and wisdom

[KOBE143]

Thanks for blessing my post with your presence and wisdom

Thanks also for your recognition..

[lilgodfather1]

[QUOTE=Round Mound]-Along Shaq the Strongest Legs in NBA History (1000 lbs leg bench press)[QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure that most NBA players can leg press 1000 pounds. I could when I was 14/15 so if someone like LeBron, DRob, etc can't then I would be beyond shocked. I went to high school with about a half a dozen people who could leg press over 1300 by the time we were in grade 12.

[Bigsmoke]

lol @ some dude saying that Barkley had a 39 inch vertical leap.

dude didnt jump as high as Derrick Rose, LeBron, Nate Robinson ect.

Nate's vertical leap is actually 44 inches but still. Barkley can jump close to that?

[Whoah10115]

Never judge a rebounder by size and athletic ability. Give Kevin Love his credit.



"Only" 15 rebounds doesn't sound right. He may very well get more, but his body and athleticism, then in contrast with Love's, should not be the determining factor.




And there isn't any chance Wilt could ever average 34-38, unless the team is fine with not winning and him just racking up.

[fpliii]

where do you guys place the upper limit of rebounding today?

is 19-20 achievable, or is the absolute max significantly lower?

[Bigsmoke]

Never judge a rebounder by size and athletic ability. Give Kevin Love his credit.



"Only" 15 rebounds doesn't sound right. He may very well get more, but his body and athleticism, then in contrast with Love's, should not be the determining factor.




And there isn't any chance Wilt could ever average 34-38, unless the team is fine with not winning and him just racking up.

thats what i'm saying

Older NBA fans uses Kevin Love success like a measurement stick like "YEAH if Love can do this then could"

[lilgodfather1]

where do you guys place the upper limit of rebounding today?

is 19-20 achievable, or is the absolute max significantly lower?

It would depend on the team imo. If you are playing on the slowest team in the league there is likely going to be only 92ish posession per game to get a rebound. You have to figure that your team and the other team is going to (over 82 games) average approximately 40-48 rebounds so in order for you to average 20 rebounds a game your rebounding percentage would have to be over 40%. That's not going to happen in any league imo.

[Pointguard]

thats what i'm saying

Older NBA fans uses Kevin Love success like a measurement stick like "YEAH if Love can do this then could"

Both I and Jlauber have used Kevin Love in our height/athletic arguments. Saying that desire is moreso the criteria than height/girth/athleticism.

where do you guys place the upper limit of rebounding today?

is 19-20 achievable, or is the absolute max significantly lower?

I think 21 per 40 minutes is the absolute max. 19 the practical max. 17 the multi-task max.

[fpliii]

Both I and Jlauber have used Kevin Love in our height/athletic arguments. Saying that desire is moreso the criteria than height/girth/athleticism.



I think 21 per 40 minutes is the absolute max. 19 the practical max. 17 the multi-task max.

multi-tasking as in concentrating on two phases of the game (either of offense/defense + rebounding), or all three (offense+defense+rebounding)?

I think 19 is the multi-task max, but we could see 21 in a playoff run where there are fewer contests in which one needs to exert the necessary energy (requiring less sustainability)