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Old 04-10-2019, 03:45 PM   #16
Hawker
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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Originally Posted by tpols
Its already free for them mate. Medicaid... They're all on it and its the same thing.

All this would do is cut out insurance middle men who are currently bogging down the system tremendously, and give path to better negotiating power with pharmaceutical companies. Medicare negotiates downward waaay more than private insurance providers do.

Yeah but all those other countries don't allow illegals to use their healthcare system. They also have strict merid based immigration systems as well.

If you're going to reference other countries, at least be consistent.

We'll also have to increase taxes heavily on the middle class to afford this. And add a federal GST.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:49 PM   #17
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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Originally Posted by Hawker
Yeah but all those other countries don't allow illegals to use their healthcare system. They also have strict merid based immigration systems as well.

If you're going to reference other countries, at least be consistent.

We'll also have to increase taxes heavily on the middle class to afford this. And add a federal GST.


That s why I kinda hope they do it in medium sized north east states first... They could do it. Cali can't. Alabama can't.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:51 PM   #18
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

So what I gather from this is that the middle class (what's left of it) get's screwed even more. Say good by to living comfortably for many Americans
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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Originally Posted by Hawker
We'll also have to increase taxes heavily on the middle class to afford this.

this is true.

i wish comrade bern guevara and his communista rebel army would come in from los campos, put their guns down and talk candidly to the 'murrican public.

stop claiming that everything will be "free" magically.

be honest. let everyone know that in order for their plans to work, taxes will have to go up bigly.

now, if they're smart they'll craft a tax plan that skews towards taxing the top 5-10% disproportionately, taking the brunt of the damage off the middle class.

then let the people decide.

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Old 04-10-2019, 03:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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Originally Posted by SomeBlackDude
this is true.

i wish comrade bern guevara and his communista rebel army would come in from los campos, put their guns down and talk candidly to the 'murrican public.

stop claiming that everything will be "free" magically.

be honest. let everyone know that in order for their plans to work, taxes will have to go up bigly.

now, if they're smart they'll craft a tax plan that skews towards taxing the top 5-10% disproportionately, taking the brunt of the damage off the middle class.

then let the people decide.


Right - but that's not how it's done in other countries. So let's be like them and raise taxes on the middle class heavily.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

if they are going to do this they should go ALL in and give everyone a basic cost of living.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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Originally Posted by Hawker
Right - but that's not how it's done in other countries. So let's be like them and raise taxes on the middle class heavily.

this is 'murrica, jack. we do things a lil bit differently.

bern should put on a bad ass armored fleece jacket and give this speech at the lincoln memorial.

the people are with it.

Quote:
Most Americans Support Increasing Taxes on the Wealthy: Poll

Support for raising taxes is widespread, according to a new poll, which found that 76% of registered voters want the wealthiest Americans to pay more.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:04 PM   #23
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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Originally Posted by Vino24
if they are going to do this they should go ALL in and give everyone a basic cost of living.

This is not a thing.

Free money doesnt exist.

If everyone gets a cost of living check, stores will raise the prices on everything until once again, just like right now, they find the price point between being as high as possible and affordable to as many people as possible.

Goods and services ARE NOT priced on some objective basis. It is supply and demand. If you increase the availability of money, it will eventually increase prices for goods.

In Italy you make like 100 lira an hour for shining shoes (before they switched to the euro). But a loaf of bread costs 500 lira. It’s called inflation.

People think itd be great if every American got a “free” 1,000 dollars. Guess what? A tank of gas will suddenly cost 200 dollars.

It’s really clear and simple. People cant deny the logic, but they know in their heart they really, REALLY want a handout. So they just ignore it.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:05 PM   #24
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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Originally Posted by SomeBlackDude
this is 'murrica, jack. we do things a lil bit differently.

bern should put on a bad ass armored fleece jacket and give this speech at the lincoln memorial.

the people are with it.


Everything doesnt come down to what “most people want” which is why courts have upheld unpopular rulings.

You cant arbitrarily penalize people at whatever tax rate you decide pays for the things you want.

That’s clown mentality. No surprise “most Americans favor it!”
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:11 PM   #25
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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You cant arbitrarily penalize people at whatever tax rate you decide pays for the things you want.

if fidel bernstro and checasio guevara take the white house and both chambers of congress in a bloody coup... what would be the impediment to them raising taxes on the fat cats to fund their medicare for all and other "free" programs?
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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Originally Posted by SomeBlackDude
if fidel bernstro and checasio guevara take the white house and both chambers of congress in a bloody coup... what would be the impediment to them raising taxes on the fat cats to fund their medicare for all and other "free" programs?


First of all, the present tax rates were stipulated to remain in effect til something like 2025, werent they? Not positive about that but I think so. It’s doubtful Old Man Sanders will still be evading the reaper by that time.

Further, the federal income tax is legally dubious to begin with. Obviously in its present state it is stewarded carefully by the 1% at a rate high enough to keep the sheep happy about rich people “paying durr fair shurr” plus keeping the neocon military industrial machine happy with tax revenue, but not being too onerous to business as a 60-70% rate would be. So there isnt enough of a coalition of influencers to challenge it right now. Especially since many use loopholes anyway.

If you raise it too high you may get wealthy influences involved in legal challenge. Not to mention it would have to be approved by Congress which is highly unlikely.

Sandtard and Alexandrio Sanchez-Herrera couldnt just hike up taxes on a whim bc they wake up with the feels one morning.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:58 PM   #27
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeBlackDude
this is true.

i wish comrade bern guevara and his communista rebel army would come in from los campos, put their guns down and talk candidly to the 'murrican public.

stop claiming that everything will be "free" magically.

be honest. let everyone know that in order for their plans to work, taxes will have to go up bigly.

now, if they're smart they'll craft a tax plan that skews towards taxing the top 5-10% disproportionately, taking the brunt of the damage off the middle class.

then let the people decide.

Taxing the ultra wealthy isn’t going to raise 10% of what it would cost.

And before some idiot says “but the top x% has x% of the wealth”. Yes, WEALTH not money. The overwhelming majority of the wealth is high value assets like ownership of their companies and other assets that aren’t taxable.

At least Bernie has th decency to admit that that the middle class are going to pay for it, which of course they will.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Its already free for them mate. Medicaid... They're all on it and its the same thing.

All this would do is cut out insurance middle men who are currently bogging down the system tremendously, and give path to better negotiating power with pharmaceutical companies. Medicare negotiates downward waaay more than private insurance providers do.

Pretty much. Every working American and employer already pays into medicare/medicaid and they pay into premiums annually for employer-based insurances. Even states spend BILLIONS APIECE for medicaid each year from state taxes. Total adds up to almost 4 trillion already being paid towards premiums/deductibles/copays/medicare,medicaid taxes each year. It averages out to almost $11,000 PER PERSON ANNUALLY, which is outrageous! Combine them all into one single tax going for universal health care and still save money.

The difference being??
With an universal health care, you get rid of insurance companies, who are the middle men profiting HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS. If you drop the middle men, you can cut down significantly on paperwork, administrative fees and most importantly get rid of a plethora of needless regulations. Don't Republicans want fewer regulations? I thought that's what they want?

You can also negotiate with pharmaceutical companies to bring down costs of medicine with direct negotiations rather than through insurance companies aka middle men. Aren't Republicans fans of deal making? They voted for the bestest greatest smartest and most successful deal maker into the White House in 2016 so I would think they would be all over this.

There is no free money involved here, my friends. We are ALREADY paying for it for a system insurance companies take huge advantage of for their own profits and unnecessary regulations so let's use that same money for a truly universal solution. Hell, add a $10 copay for a doctor visit to help out pay for it a bit further.

Last edited by bladefd : 04-10-2019 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:07 PM   #29
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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Originally Posted by bladefd
Pretty much. Every working American and employer already pays into medicare/medicaid and they pay into premiums annually. Total adds up to 3 trillion are already paid towards premiums/deductibles/copays each year. Even states spend BILLIONS APIECE for medicaid each year. It averages out to almost $11,000 PER PERSON ANNUALLY, which is outrageous! Combine them all into one single tax going for universal health care.

The difference being??
With an universal health care, you get rid of insurance companies, who are the middle men profiting HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS. If you drop the middle men, you can cut down significantly on paperwork, administrative fees and most importantly get rid of a plethora of needless regulations. Don't Republicans want fewer regulations? I thought that's what they want?

You can also negotiate with pharmaceutical companies to bring down costs of medicine with direct negotiations rather than through insurance companies aka middle men. Aren't Republicans fans of deal making? They voted for the bestest greatest smartest and most successful deal maker into the White House in 2016 so I would think they would be all over this.

There is no free money involved here, my friends. We are ALREADY paying for it for a system insurance companies take huge advantage of for their own profits and unnecessary regulations so let's use that same money for a truly universal solution.
America isn’t going to have single payer healthcare. It’s not going to happen. The time has passed.

Other countries did it at a time when your doctor showed up at your house with a little black bag with a stethoscope, little glass bottles of medicine and other things in it.

It’s one thing to convince the population to do single payer government healthcare in that pre-modern medicine, pre technology era. It’s another thing to convince a population in the modern era where 180 million have private health coverage.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:11 PM   #30
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Default Re: #FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

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Originally Posted by Vino24
if they are going to do this they should go ALL in and give everyone a basic cost of living.

Nah, that would drive up inflation. Akrazotile is 100% on point. I don't think paying every American for cost of living is a good idea.. I would not support that because it would be way too expensive and inflation would be completely out of control.
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