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Old 07-31-2010, 03:15 PM   #16
demons2005
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

Kidd would fail on the jazz same reason cp would fail. They aren't Sloan type PG. Deron and stockton are a special breed of pg that really know how to run the offense even with other playmakers on the offense. Kidd is only effective on the break after that he becomes a liabilty offensively. Also he wouldn't get along with Sloan
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Haymaker
the Rick Carlisle pistons, not the Larry Brown's pistons
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:08 PM   #18
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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You don't think kidd could have dominated with a solid shooter and top 5 PF in boozer, AK47, great 3 point shooters in Okur and korver, and hustlers like brewer and millsap? This team would be absolutely retarded on defense and insane in transition.

Boozer isn't a top 5 PF by a long shot and they suck defensively. Kidd would change that single-handedly?

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Carlisle made a lot of bone head decisions during the series, like not playing his bench (which was pistons strength in the regular season) and having Uncle Cliffy start over Okur.

He went with D and experience over Okur the one-trick wonder? Hard to believe.

Quote:
Deron and stockton are a special breed of pg that really know how to run the offense even with other playmakers on the offense.

He knows how to run it after Stockton schooled him on it for at least two summers.

Kidd is overrated. Before the rule changes that allowed pg's to get in to the lane uncontested he shot below 40% yearly. I wouldn't have a problem with that if it wasn't for the fact that he took way too many shots for a guy that couldn't shoot. How many of his triple doubles would his team have been better off if he'd not scored 10 point on 4-17 shooting?

I'm a lot more impressed with him now. He can hit open 3's and relies much more on his teammates to do the scoring.
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

jason kidd easy...
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Hotshoot
Rick Carlise was out coached and Billups struggled the whole series.
The Nets also went 7 games vs. the Pistons that mauled the Lakers in the Finals.
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:44 PM   #21
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
Kidd is overrated. Before the rule changes that allowed pg's to get in to the lane uncontested he shot below 40% yearly. I wouldn't have a problem with that if it wasn't for the fact that he took way too many shots for a guy that couldn't shoot. How many of his triple doubles would his team have been better off if he'd not scored 10 point on 4-17 shooting?

I'm a lot more impressed with him now. He can hit open 3's and relies much more on his teammates to do the scoring.

What you just wrote is a bunch of garbage. Kidd wasn't the guy who beneffited from rule changes. He didn't see a significant increase in FTA or FG%. In fact, his most efficient season as the best player on his team (1999) came before the rule changes. PGs like Nash and slashers such as Wade, AI, Pierce, James, Kobe etc benefitted from getting to the lane more freely. He could always hit open 3s btw. He's a much better spot up shooter than he is off the dribble. Those NJN teams that went to the finals had no legit scoring threat so Kidd was forced to be the primary scorer and playmaker. That's why he wasn't supremely efficient. They got to the finals primarily due to their defense and the WEAK competition they faced. Now you see him in Dallas and he makes all these open 3s but that's because he benefits from the attention Dirk draws and the other threats Dallas has. The rule changes had little to no impact on JKidd. JKidd has never been a guy who runs the pick and roll really well due to his inability to be a great shooter off the dribble so guys just go under the screen. The new rules allowed more movement on the pick and roll but that helped guys like Nash moreso since defenders were either forced to switch or Nash got more time to find an open area to capitalize on. With Kidd, that doesn't work. And since the rules allowed less contact and physicality, it should be noted that Kidd was always one of the more physical and stronger PGs in the league so it didn't effect him that much.

Kidd is a overrated but as a defender or when people fall in love with his triple doubles. Not that overrated an offensive player. Everyone knows he thrives in the open court, can ignite the break with his rebounding, terrific passer and playmaker and has a solid post game. However, he's not as effective in the halfcourt because he can't shoot very well.

His defense is the thing that is ridiculously overrated. He just doesn't have the lateral quickness to keep up with guys or cut off penetration. His TEAM defense is great since he's great at communicating, being a leader, switching on time, playing the passing lanes and being quick to provide help defense. Man defense is f*cking terrible. Avery Johnson lit him up in the '98 playoffs. Drove by him with ease and was hitting runners, floaters with ease. Had Duncan calling him the MVP of the series. Anthony Johnson destroyed him in the '06 series against Indiana. Dropped 40 on his ass and Kidd made him look like a prime Isiah. Jason Williams was killing him off the dribble in the '01 playoffs. Really, his man defense is overrated. Guy doesn't deserve all those all defense selections he has over the years. And he couldn't draw offensive fouls like his contemporary Nash, either.
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:47 PM   #22
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by AirJordan23
What you just wrote is a bunch of garbage. Kidd wasn't the guy who beneffited from rule changes. He didn't see a significant increase in FTA or FG%. In fact, his most efficient season as the best player on his team (1999) came before the rule changes. PGs like Nash and slashers such as Wade, AI, Pierce, James, Kobe etc benefitted from getting to the lane more freely. He could always hit open 3s btw. He's a much better spot up shooter than he is off the dribble. Those NJN teams that went to the finals had no legit scoring threat so Kidd was forced to be the primary scorer and playmaker. That's why he wasn't supremely efficient. They got to the finals primarily due to their defense and the WEAK competition they faced. Now you see him in Dallas and he makes all these open 3s but that's because he benefits from the attention Dirk draws and the other threats Dallas has. The rule changes had little to no impact on JKidd. JKidd has never been a guy who runs the pick and roll really well due to his inability to be a great shooter off the dribble so guys just go under the screen. The new rules allowed more movement on the pick and roll but that helped guys like Nash moreso since defenders were either forced to switch or Nash got more time to find an open area to capitalize on. With Kidd, that doesn't work. And since the rules allowed less contact and physicality, it should be noted that Kidd was always one of the more physical and stronger PGs in the league so it didn't effect him that much.

Kidd is a overrated but as a defender or when people fall in love with his triple doubles. Not that overrated an offensive player. Everyone knows he thrives in the open court, can ignite the break with his rebounding, terrific passer and playmaker and has a solid post game. However, he's not as effective in the halfcourt because he can't shoot very well.

His defense is the thing that is ridiculously overrated. He just doesn't have the lateral quickness to keep up with guys or cut off penetration. His TEAM defense is great since he's great at communicating, being a leader, switching on time, playing the passing lanes and being quick to provide help defense. Man defense is f*cking terrible. Avery Johnson lit him up in the '98 playoffs. Drove by him with ease and was hitting runners, floaters with ease. Had Duncan calling him the MVP of the series. Anthony Johnson destroyed him in the '06 series against Indiana. Dropped 40 on his ass and Kidd made him look like a prime Isiah. Jason Williams was killing him off the dribble in the '01 playoffs. Really, his man defense is overrated. Guy doesn't d eserve all those all defense selections he has over the years. And he couldn't draw offensive fouls like his contemporary Nash, either.

Why did you respond to him?
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

Kidd has his faults, but I would still take him because he has the best court vision of any player since Magic.
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

Quote:
Kidd wasn't the guy who beneffited from rule changes. He didn't see a significant increase in FTA or FG%.

Sure he did as did every poor shooting guard this side of Baron Davis did(Yes AI I'm talking about your sorry ass %).

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Kidd was forced to be the primary scorer and playmaker.

A sub 40% shooter forced to be the primary scorer?
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Why did you respond to him?

Because that's what this forum is for?
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:59 PM   #26
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
Sure he did as did every poor shooting guard this side of Baron Davis did(Yes AI I'm talking about your sorry ass %).



A sub 40% shooter forced to be the primary scorer?
Use your brain man. You answered yourself in your own post. Kidd is not a great scorer and the reason he shot poorly is because he was forced to be his team's go to scorer.
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

As an Illini fan, I'm in love with Deron and hope that he becomes one of the greatest PGs of all time. That said, Kidd at his prime was better. His defense, ability to run the break, and general efficiency was just greater than Deron. However, this is not to say that Deron cannot catch up, because I think in 2-3 years Deron could certainly be thought of as the better player.
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Kidd is not a great scorer and the reason he shot poorly is because he was forced to be his team's go to scorer.

He was a great passer so I don't buy he was forced to shoot below 40%. I'd have been a lot more impressed if he'd taken Stockton's assist title from him before Stockton's minutes were lowered after microfracture surgery but he didn't. Than he lost the title as soon as Nash went to Phoenix. Jacking too many shots.
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:11 PM   #29
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
He was a great passer so I don't buy he was forced to shoot below 40%. I'd have been a lot more impressed if he'd taken Stockton's assist title from him before Stockton's minutes were lowered after microfracture surgery but he didn't. Than he lost the title as soon as Nash went to Phoenix. Jacking too many shots.
so who on his nets teams should have been the go to guy when they needed a basket?
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
Sure he did as did every poor shooting guard this side of Baron Davis did(Yes AI I'm talking about your sorry ass %).

WTF are you talking about? His career high in FG% before '08 came in '99. Ignore the Dallas years because he's basically a spot up shooter in Dallas. And benefits from the attention the other offensive threats draw. And he's a great spot up shooter. He didn't just suddenly raise his %. Tell me if this is a significant increase in FG% like you're implying.

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40 (year the rule changes were implemented)
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But, hey, it's a drastic increase right?


Quote:
A sub 40% shooter forced to be the primary scorer?
That Nets team wasn't exactly stacked with scorers so he was forced to be the primary scorer. Not sure if you quite understand the concept. Whenever you're the primary option, defenses key in on you and your efficiency takes a hit. And nobody else could create on that New Jersey that went to the finals. RJ was young then although he still had some game. Van Horn was there for an year. You want KMart, Mutombo or Kittles creating shots? Ain't gonna be pretty. Kidd made his team better. Not really debatable. And I don't like the guy at all.
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