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Old 07-31-2010, 07:18 PM   #31
AirJordan23
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Yung D-Will
Why did you respond to him?
Not sure. I shouldn't have wasted my time, though. But, I usually tend to make longer posts so I had to do it.
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:20 PM   #32
Xiao Yao You
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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so who on his nets teams should have been the go to guy when they needed a basket?

Someone that could shoot which I believe everyone of his teammates shot over 40%.

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That Nets team wasn't exactly stacked with scorers so he was forced to be the primary scorer.

He was forced to in Phoenix and Dallas too?
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Not sure if you quite understand the concept. Whenever you're the primary option, defenses key in on you and your efficiency takes a hit.

I fully understand just not as impressed with the guy as you I guess.

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And nobody else could create on that New Jersey that went to the finals. You want KMart, Mutombo or Kerry Kittles creating shots? Ain't gonna be pretty.

You mean like 36.6% pretty? Not many guys in league history have been so ugly from the field. He's in an elite class that is for sure.

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Kidd made his team better. Not really debatable.

Didn't argue that. Could his team have been better if he'd had less triple doubles, more assists and a higher shooting %. I believe so.
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:30 PM   #33
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
He was a great passer so I don't buy he was forced to shoot below 40%. I'd have been a lot more impressed if he'd taken Stockton's assist title from him before Stockton's minutes were lowered after microfracture surgery but he didn't. Than he lost the title as soon as Nash went to Phoenix. Jacking too many shots.

That's the thing you have to understand about Jason, he doesn't give a **** about statistical titles and numbers. This is probably why you're upset with him not taking Stockton's assist title. Cause quite frankly, he probably didn't care about it. Jason, as far as his Nets days are concerned, was about winning. And he did that. He was the antithesis of a guy who played for stats. If there was .4 seconds left and it was a full court heave at the end of the quarter, he'll take it. He did that constantly just to get a better chance of winning. He was almost always the guy to take the shot at the end of the shot clock; and for a team that cannot create their own offense, that was a lot of ****ing times he was jacking up shots that really had a little chance of going in, whether it'd be Jason Kidd or Michael Jordan.
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:49 PM   #34
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
He was forced to in Phoenix and Dallas too?
Mash and Jackson were the primary scorers. Not sure why Kidd's efficiency was terrible but I never paid much attention to them since they were a trash team. I don't think they ever made the playoffs and had to be broken up due to a feud. Definitely had chemistry issues. I don't ever remember Kidd playing with a legit threat in Phoenix save for Marion and McDyess for one year. And he got the best out of them. Broken down Penny doesn't count. And he mostly kept his shots to a minimal in his Phoenix days. He was taking around 10-13 shots a game. When you think about the minutes he played, it's not a lot. And there's probably a couple of bailout shots in there. If he makes one more shot per game for his career, his efficiency takes a sudden increase. Like from 40% to close to 50. There's various factors that have to be considered.

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I fully understand just not as impressed with the guy as you I guess.
Never said I was impressed with him. I do think his defense is overrated and I mentioned that before. While efficiency is important, I don't think it's the be-all, end-all like you think it is. Kidd impacted the game in so many other ways, that it more than trumps his shooting woes.
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You mean like 36.6% pretty? Not many guys in league history have been so ugly from the field. He's in an elite class that is for sure.
Probably. Mutombo never had much of an offensive game save for the sweeping hook. He made his impact by setting good screens, hitting the offensive glass and finishing putbacks. You give him the ball on the low block and let him go to work? It's not going to very productive. KMart is the same guy teams always leave open. And you remember that 3-23 shooting night he had in the finals? That's what happens when you give him that many shots. It's not his game to create offense. Kittles was a good shooter and defender but his ball handling was average and he wasn't a great slasher. Wasn't that strong either. Not sure if he would more effective in Kidd's role. JKidd was the best offensive player on that team. And it'd be foolish to think otherwise. Although, it was primarily their D that got them there.

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Didn't argue that. Could his team have been better if he'd had less triple doubles, more assists and a higher shooting %. I believe so.
He had enough assists as it as. Not sure why his triple doubles hurt the team. They are overvalued by some but he was only helping them by getting boards which helped ignite the break.
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Old 07-31-2010, 10:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

Chris Paul
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:07 PM   #36
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by wang4three
As an Illini fan, I'm in love with Deron and hope that he becomes one of the greatest PGs of all time. That said, Kidd at his prime was better. His defense, ability to run the break, and general efficiency was just greater than Deron. However, this is not to say that Deron cannot catch up, because I think in 2-3 years Deron could certainly be thought of as the better player.
Kidd cant close out a game like Deron can, amirite?
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:16 PM   #37
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Th3ShowMVP
Kidd cant close out a game like Deron can, amirite?

I've seen Kidd close out plenty of games.
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:18 PM   #38
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by wang4three
I've seen Kidd close out plenty of games.
lol, yet no youtube videos of it.

Deron>Kidd, Kidd can't even create his own shot in the halfcourt.
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:33 PM   #39
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

i'm taking Deron. Kidd is overrated 2 me. He is just a taller Mark Jackson. He can only pass and play D. Not really a scorer.


Kidd is like 0-2 finals
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:36 PM   #40
Yung D-Will
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

Again the same people who try to discredit Rondo for not having a jumpshot are trying to discredit Kidd
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:41 PM   #41
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Yung D-Will
Again the same people who try to discredit Rondo for not having a jumpshot are trying to discredit Kidd

what u still mad?

btw i rather have Rose rite now than current D-will and Prime Kidd real talks bro!!
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:42 PM   #42
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Yung D-Will
Again the same people who try to discredit Rondo for not having a jumpshot are trying to discredit Kidd
Rondo really doesn't have a jumpshot. But Kidd has always been able to knock down the spot-up three. He shoots poorly off-the dribble. That's about it. He's an effective post player on offense. He can drive as well as anyone. He's not as incapable as some people here are making him look.
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:45 PM   #43
wang4three
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by Th3ShowMVP
lol, yet no youtube videos of it.

Deron>Kidd, Kidd can't even create his own shot in the halfcourt.
Did you watch the NBA pre-2004, pre-Youtube?

First off all, here's the most notable one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF-i2qRuHSk


Secondly, closing a game and making a youtube clips are separate cases. If you feel like you can define a player's clutch ability by how many youtube clips are available, I don't know what to say.
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:49 PM   #44
Th3ShowMVP
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by wang4three
Did you watch the NBA pre-2004, pre-Youtube?

First off all, here's the most notable one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF-i2qRuHSk


Secondly, closing a game and making a youtube clips are separate cases. If you feel like you can define a player's clutch ability by how many youtube clips are available, I don't know what to say.
LOL, he has one. Even Rashard Lewis has some

Deron>Kidd, HOMER.
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:51 PM   #45
The_Yearning
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Default Re: Prime Jason Kidd vs Current Deron Williams

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Originally Posted by wang4three
Did you watch the NBA pre-2004, pre-Youtube?

First off all, here's the most notable one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF-i2qRuHSk


Secondly, closing a game and making a youtube clips are separate cases. If you feel like you can define a player's clutch ability by how many youtube clips are available, I don't know what to say.

Dude...there was no pressure on that shot. The game was tied lmao.
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