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  1. #46
    High School Varsity 6th Man The Real JW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by joe
    How could it possibly help us, to fine companies for shipping jobs out of the US?

    What would happen if you did that?

    1) If the fine was high enough, companies would stop creating jobs in the US to begin with.

    2) If the fine was too low, it wouldn't make a difference.
    Really? You think those would be the only two possible outcomes? If the outsourcing fines are too great, American companies will just... stop giving jobs to Americans. Why, exactly? How? You think they don't have production/service demands to fill? If they're consciously not hiring Americans for whatever your reason is, and if they're consciously not hiring abroad because of excessive fines... who would they be hiring? They'll just say, "Okay, we don't need employees anymore"?

  2. #47
    Alpha Tarheel rufuspaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"




    You know I understand the president's point, that everyone benefits from the government at some point. But whoever wrote that speech made a grievous error. It came off as insulting to those of us who busted our asses to create a small business. I know that wasn't his intent but at the time I was furious. This sound bite will be used (out of context) against him and rightfully so.

  3. #48
    pronouns - he/haw Nanners's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    i dont see why the ultra rich (im talking about multi millionaires and billionaires) are opposed to higher tax rates. wall street and the corporate elite already own the government, therefore they can just funnel their tax money back to themselves using bailouts, subsidies and other handouts they have been using for years.

    its tragic that the family dentist pays a higher tax rate than mitt romney. there is a huge difference between a millionaire and a billionaire, and the current system vastly favors the latter. in a lot of ways the doctors, lawyers, college professors, engineers, and small business owners are the ones that get screwed the most by wall street (the ones who set up the current system).
    Last edited by Nanners; 07-26-2012 at 11:41 PM.

  4. #49
    NBA Legend Jailblazers7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by rufuspaul



    You know I understand the president's point, that everyone benefits from the government at some point. But whoever wrote that speech made a grievous error. It came off as insulting to those of us who busted our asses to create a small business. I know that wasn't his intent but at the time I was furious. This sound bite will be used (out of context) against him and rightfully so.
    "Somebody invested in roads and bridges, if you've got a business, you didn't build that."

    That quote is being blown way out of proportion. The tone of that speech was very sketchy and a political gamble but that sound bite has been misunderstood and manipulated to hell.

  5. #50
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by rufuspaul
    Romney was put in charge of a company whose job it was to either turn other companies around and make them profitable or cut their losses and sell off the assets. I'd say he did it pretty well.

    Tax revenues in this country can more than pay for everything that the government needs. The evil people who make more than $250,000 (I'm in that bunch) already pay the bulk of income taxes collected annually. What is with this $250,000 deal anyways? They lump people like me, upper middle class at best, with the super rich. There's a huge difference between $250,000 and $2,500,000 but we're taxed at the same rate. WTF??? It's because Obama and co. have decided that $250,000 and above are evil, hoarding motherfuukers who hate America and the middle class.

    Look, I don't like Romney. He's week and 2-faced. But guess what? I feel exactly the same about Obama. He's a total facade. So depressing.
    actually i agree with you $250k is probably too low to start at, i was more in favor of over $1 mill and i thought that was the plan at one point.

    and Obama didn't decide anyone was evil more than people paying taxes in relation to what they earn which to me makes sense. everyone has a certain amount of FU money (after taxes and bills) to blow on the non necessities, and at the low end they're scraping to stay at that thresh-hold while at the higher ends they're way above that. billionaires have more money than they know what to do with. even millionaires have a huge cushion of money where higher taxes won't hurt them like it will the lower incomes.

  6. #51
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by Juges8932
    How would you feel if that was your money though? I just don't see why it can't be fair and equal to all across the board. I mean, when it isn't your money being lost, sure it can be easy to say- "What's the big deal if they lose more money to taxes when they already have x amount?" But when it is your money that is being lost you might feel differently about it. So yes, it makes so much sense when you are not in their shoes.

    Of course many people are not lazy, on welfare, etc. But why should somebody at Taco Bell have to pay a smaller percentage than the person who busted their ass through college and trying to make it for themselves? People wonder why a lot of wealthier people try to get out of paying taxes and honestly, can't really blame them.

    because busting your ass in college generally entitles you to a good lifestyle regardless of higher taxes where you'll be driving a Benz and the taco bell kid will be driving a Kia Rio regardless of higher taxes on you. he'll probably have to work twice as hard as you in life to make ends meet.

    nobody wants to be taxed higher but somebody has to be, and to me it makes the most sense to tax the rich more. i think if you were in the shoes of people working 40 hour/week layman jobs struggling to make ends meet you'd get it, in fact most rich people would change their perspective i bet.

  7. #52
    The Paterfamilias RedBlackAttack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by rufuspaul
    This sound bite will be used (out of context) against him and rightfully so.
    Yes... Because who needs context?


    We should be able to piece together statements to form whatever kind of sentiments best fit our narrative of what we'd like our political opponents to say. To hell with intent!

  8. #53
    Alpha Tarheel rufuspaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
    Yes... Because who needs context?


    We should be able to piece together statements to form whatever kind of sentiments best fit our narrative of what we'd like our political opponents to say. To hell with intent!
    Both sides do it and people take it for the truth.

  9. #54
    Land of Ownst Juges8932's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzuki
    because busting your ass in college generally entitles you to a good lifestyle regardless of higher taxes where you'll be driving a Benz and the taco bell kid will be driving a Kia Rio regardless of higher taxes on you. he'll probably have to work twice as hard as you in life to make ends meet.

    nobody wants to be taxed higher but somebody has to be, and to me it makes the most sense to tax the rich more. i think if you were in the shoes of people working 40 hour/week layman jobs struggling to make ends meet you'd get it, in fact most rich people would change their perspective i bet.
    That's definitely not true. How much you make with a college degree is not set in stone. It varies so extremely with what subject you majored in. Job market is a huge factor. People who got college degrees don't just automatically get a free pass to an easy life. You make it sound like all you have to do is get a college degree and then bam, everything is set for you. That simply isn't the case. Well then the kid working at Taco Bell should have had higher career ambitions or put himself in a better position to succeed. They could be working while going to school to pay for it. Even if they can only take a couple of classes per semester because of having to work 40 hours a week, in 5-6 years (however long it takes them) they will have a degree that they can try to better their lives with.

    There are scholarship opportunities coming out of high school where they can have all of their school paid for, grants (if their family does not make a lot of money), loans, etc. It is so easy to go to college these days that everybody can do it. And as far as working twice as hard- give me a break, lol. Taco Bell is the same shit everyday; there is no pressure to perform. While if you are actually pursuing a career it is something different everyday. You have to find out how to apply the knowledge from school while continuing to be up to date on current knowledge which grows everyday. Also, it isn't like you just work your 40 hours and call it a week. Some weeks you have to work 50+ hours while still only being paid for 40. Hell, some of those investment bankers that everybody loves to shit on have to work 80-100 hours a week; at least until they make partner 20 years down the road. The point I'm making is that just because somebody got a degree doesn't mean that they automatically have the easy life. They worked hard, busting their asses to be where they are. The Taco Bell kid doesn't get paid a lot because the job is something anybody could do; it doesn't require any special skills or talents and it should be rewarded as such. There is nothing wrong with working at Taco Bell if you want to, but you also shouldn't be expecting to live the life of somebody who went to college and tried to make something of themselves.

    The top 10% of earners already pay 70% of taxes; my goodness, how much more do you want them to pay, lol? I don't think those who work at Taco Bell should pay a higher percentage, but that doesn't mean that the wealthier should have to pay a higher percentage either. If everybody gets taxed 'x' percent then everybody is having to pay the same. That is what is fair and equal. Of course, it is a lot easier to say they should pay more when it isn't your money. I'm a college kid; it's not like I'm out there making $250k+ already, lol. My views are not based on what I am experiencing myself but what I think is fair and equal, because I know if I was in a wealthy person's shoes it would be frustrating.

  10. #55
    In Morey We Trust! brantonli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    I think it's very, very interesting scenario here. A lot of people here hate tax increases (especially for them obviously) but are perfectly willing to pay extra consumption tax to save jobs (and I believe a lot of people are already doing so for agricultural products).

    Frankly I think the best thing to do is get appropriate retraining schemes for outsourced workers (or indeed, any unemployed workers). People keep banging on about the education system failures but education doesn't have to stop when you reach 22.

  11. #56
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by Juges8932
    That's definitely not true. How much you make with a college degree is not set in stone. It varies so extremely with what subject you majored in. Job market is a huge factor. People who got college degrees don't just automatically get a free pass to an easy life. You make it sound like all you have to do is get a college degree and then bam, everything is set for you. That simply isn't the case. Well then the kid working at Taco Bell should have had higher career ambitions or put himself in a better position to succeed. They could be working while going to school to pay for it. Even if they can only take a couple of classes per semester because of having to work 40 hours a week, in 5-6 years (however long it takes them) they will have a degree that they can try to better their lives with.

    There are scholarship opportunities coming out of high school where they can have all of their school paid for, grants (if their family does not make a lot of money), loans, etc. It is so easy to go to college these days that everybody can do it. And as far as working twice as hard- give me a break, lol. Taco Bell is the same shit everyday; there is no pressure to perform. While if you are actually pursuing a career it is something different everyday. You have to find out how to apply the knowledge from school while continuing to be up to date on current knowledge which grows everyday. Also, it isn't like you just work your 40 hours and call it a week. Some weeks you have to work 50+ hours while still only being paid for 40. Hell, some of those investment bankers that everybody loves to shit on have to work 80-100 hours a week; at least until they make partner 20 years down the road. The point I'm making is that just because somebody got a degree doesn't mean that they automatically have the easy life. They worked hard, busting their asses to be where they are. The Taco Bell kid doesn't get paid a lot because the job is something anybody could do; it doesn't require any special skills or talents and it should be rewarded as such. There is nothing wrong with working at Taco Bell if you want to, but you also shouldn't be expecting to live the life of somebody who went to college and tried to make something of themselves.

    The top 10% of earners already pay 70% of taxes; my goodness, how much more do you want them to pay, lol? I don't think those who work at Taco Bell should pay a higher percentage, but that doesn't mean that the wealthier should have to pay a higher percentage either. If everybody gets taxed 'x' percent then everybody is having to pay the same. That is what is fair and equal. Of course, it is a lot easier to say they should pay more when it isn't your money. I'm a college kid; it's not like I'm out there making $250k+ already, lol. My views are not based on what I am experiencing myself but what I think is fair and equal, because I know if I was in a wealthy person's shoes it would be frustrating.

    The top 10% pay the most taxes because they make the most money. Their tax rate is generally lower than the bottom 90% however. A person in the bottom 90 percentile will usually pay a greater proportion of his income to taxes than those in the top 10%.

  12. #57
    Land of Ownst Juges8932's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastic
    The top 10% pay the most taxes because they make the most money. Their tax rate is generally lower than the bottom 90% however. A person in the bottom 90 percentile will usually pay a greater proportion of his income to taxes than those in the top 10%.
    http://blog.heritage.org/2011/10/04/...-pay-in-taxes/

    I understand they make the most money, hence paying the most. My point is that if there was a flat tax rate, then it would be equal across the board.

    How is that so? I used these two sites in order to do my following calculations:

    Marginal tax rates from 2011: http://taxes.about.com/od/Federal-In...1-Tax-Year.htm

    How much the top 'x'% earn: http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011...-make-percent/

    How much each of the brackets pay in total percentage:


  13. #58
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by Balla_Status
    I'm sure corporations are smart enough to figure out how to "even the playing field."
    Yes because history is littered with examples of this happening.

  14. #59
    The Paterfamilias RedBlackAttack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by rufuspaul
    Both sides do it and people take it for the truth.
    Have to say that I have never seen an entire campaign be centered around something so blatantly NOT what was intended by the opposing candidate. Literally every new Romney ad that I have seen revolves around Obama saying that, if you have a small business, "you didn't build that."

    Anyone with half a brain knows that he didn't say that. Is Romney really going to hang his proverbial hat on something so clearly contrived?

    There are plenty of actual issues that factually separate these two guys. There is no need to just make stuff up. And I have a hard time believing someone as bright as you thinks this is a good thing.

  15. #60
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    Default Re: Mitt Romney interview: "Stop attacking success"

    Quote Originally Posted by rufuspaul
    Both sides do it and people take it for the truth.

    both sides may do it but not to the same degree. its like Fox news to CNN, to pretend they're remotely the same for right and the left respectively is laughable. CNN is much more centered than Fox news is partisan, even if many on the right will call CNN liberal. you can't keep acting like since both sides do something the amount/degree doesn't matter since it does. its just like how you tried to blame the Democrats for accepting NRA money when they accepted so little of it compared to the right wing. sure you want neither party to accept any of it but those aren't options right now and we're choosing between the lesser of 2 evils at this point.

    everyone wants a viable 3rd party candidate but its not happening right now so might as well live in and deal with the present.

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