Bill Russell Vertical Leap

[La Frescobaldi]

Yeah, it's "even" said this, as if a 7'1 guy with freakishly long arms would need a 40 or 50 inch vertical in order to perform this. Samuel Dalembert, with nowhere near Wilt's speed almost pulled this off during a game and Toni Kukoc with nowhere near Wilt's length (and definitely not 40 inches of vertical) had no problems dunking from the FT line in a Croatian All Star competition (there exists UTube footage of this). But, knowing this, and having seen some more of Wilt's exploits, nope, we still need hard photographic evidence for the extraordinary claim of achieving the apex of basketball athleticism, dunkng from the FT line...



I don't know what photos you're talking about, but if someone were to photoshop some photos of Wilt or Russell supposedly showing a 50-inch vertical, he'd do exactly this.
Some time ago, someone posted that photo of H.S Wilt playfully jumping over two bending teammates during some practice. Like half of the posters there believed that the photo was photoshopped because the shadows seemed somewhat weird (because, as seen by the crap told by conspiracy "geniuses" that believe Apollo 11 was a hoax, it's well known that humans have perfect perception of shadows...). Too bad the exact same image had appeared, among others, in a book older than any version of Photoshop/modern editing programs (I think it was "Tall Tales"). Yes, images could still be distorted back then, but you had to hire way more specialized people than nowadays, which would be a pretty stupid thing to do. Hire someone to distort some picture of Wilt, so that a bunch of nobodies in the future would not doubt about his abilities. Uh, OK. Hey, why only stay there, why not make up a few photos of Wilt dunking in 13-feet baskets too, then?

Psileas I think they are talking about the photos at the beginning of the footage of Chamberlain with his head and shoulder over the rim on blocked shot......

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Bumping an old thread.
It's interesting to read through this old board - people like kblaze for example, have an open mind, that it was at least possible for Chamberlain & Russell to have got to the top........ while most people flatly say it wasn't possible, or even stupid to say those guys could get anywhere close.

Really, skepticism has pretty much tipped over to cynicism.

But it is a fact that some game footage surfaced recently that shows a glimpse of Chamberlain's vertical:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EpVZS26BUs

Now all the pretty colors that guy painted on that clip is pretty much bullshite. And the angle of the camera is very deceptive.

Don't use the top of the backboard as reference in that Youtube clip - look at where he is in relation to the rim. You can clearly see that not only is Chamberlain's head above the rim, his shoulder is too. Basically his armpit is at rim level.

Given the fact that it would be 35" from the top of Chamberlain's 7'1&1/16" head to the 10' rim, that is at least a 42" vertical, and I suspect it is considerably more than that.

Given the fact that he was timing a blocked shot in a game, taking no step, and using his left or off hand for his reach........ he got mighty mighty close to the top in that old college footage.

I have little doubt that in a serious attempt to do his best vertical, he could have gotten higher than that - since his target here is not his highest leap, but the ball.

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I re-posted this interesting old thread due to the new footage which showed up on Youtube here in the last couple of months.

{Unfortunately I'm kinda glad jlauber ain't around because I see one of my blocked users is on here....... probably spewing more alkali about jlauber's long posts.}

Anyhow it looks like the unending rants about no-footage-it-didn't-happen just don't have legs anymore

[millwad]

Yeah, it's "even" said this, as if a 7'1 guy with freakishly long arms would need a 40 or 50 inch vertical in order to perform this. Samuel Dalembert, with nowhere near Wilt's speed almost pulled this off during a game and Toni Kukoc with nowhere near Wilt's length (and definitely not 40 inches of vertical) had no problems dunking from the FT line in a Croatian All Star competition (there exists UTube footage of this). But, knowing this, and having seen some more of Wilt's exploits, nope, we still need hard photographic evidence for the extraordinary claim of achieving the apex of basketball athleticism, dunkng from the FT line...

Psileas, you're not like these obsessed fan boys you do know you have my respect and I think you know what I'm talking about.

Apparently Wilt could dunk from the FT-line without a running start, he only needed to take two steps inside the circle and then he would fly to the basket. That is the biggest pile of crap ever said about Wilt and it's an obvious lie..

And stuff like Wilt having a 50 inch vertical like he himself said, seriously? 50 inch vertical? Spud who's pic I posted earlier in this thread had a 42 inch vertical and no way Wilt was any close to to that..

And Le Frescobaldi or whatever your name is, please tell us about Wilt's standing vertical....

[PTB Fan]

Russell may have a bigger vert than Wilt. Both were around 35-40 at max on a good day.

[Psileas]

Psileas, you're not like these obsessed fan boys you do know you have my respect and I think you know what I'm talking about.

Apparently Wilt could dunk from the FT-line without a running start, he only needed to take two steps inside the circle and then he would fly to the basket. That is the biggest pile of crap ever said about Wilt and it's an obvious lie..

And stuff like Wilt having a 50 inch vertical like he himself said, seriously? 50 inch vertical? Spud who's pic I posted earlier in this thread had a 42 inch vertical and no way Wilt was any close to to that..

And Le Frescobaldi or whatever your name is, please tell us about Wilt's standing vertical....

I didn't say without a running start. This was the deal that changed the rules after all. You could take a few steps and then step from the line and shoot. FYI, it takes definitely less than a full court for a great athlete to acquire like 90% of his full speed and take off. I don't know how many steps Wilt would need, but I would be surprised if he couldn't do it.

Wilt didn't have 50 inches of vertical and no big man ever did - I'd love to know otherwise.
Spud Webb, as far as I've heard, was closer to 45-46 inches.

[millwad]

I didn't say without a running start. This was the deal that changed the rules after all. You could take a few steps and then step from the line and shoot. FYI, it takes definitely less than a full court for a great athlete to acquire like 90% of his full speed and take off. I don't know how many steps Wilt would need, but I would be surprised if he couldn't do it.

Wilt didn't have 50 inches of vertical and no big man ever did - I'd love to know otherwise.
Spud Webb, as far as I've heard, was closer to 45-46 inches.

Even Spud's own website says that he had a 42 inch vertical so I know I can trust that and it's safe to say that he had a higher vert then Wilt, no doubt..

Source: http://www.spudwebb.net/

And regarding Wilt's free throw dunks, I am talking about the nonsense that he didn't need a running start to dunk from the FT-line and that he only needed to take 2 small steps before flying to the basket.. I am not talking about a running start.

And honestly, I couldn't trust them quotes any less then what I do now. Too many tall tales from Wilt himself and his peers.. A 50 inch vertical, the guy could dunk from the FT-line without a running start, once he dunked a basketball so hard that a player broke his foot/toe (sure..) etc..

So many myths and quotes and if Wilt could make up stuff like a 50 inch vertical I'm sure some people exaggerated alot when it came to other stuff about Wilt as well..

No one denies the fact the he was a great jumper, and so was Bill Russell but all this nonsense about their verts is just rubbish..

In that case both Russell and Wilt had a higher vertical than Stefan Holm, one of the greatest high jumpers of all time; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZ3ZcorTF0

[Lebron23]

They don't have an NBA Pre Draft Camp in the 1960's.

[jlauber]

The "anti-Chamberlain" clan has been spewing NONSENSE about Wilt for the last several years on this forum. FORTUNATELY we are getting more-and-more VIDEO FOOTAGE which just DESTROYS their trash.

I firmly believe that no other legitimate NBA player has ever had a higher REACH than Chamberlain. In the past few months the VIDEO footage was released in which a Chamberlain, without benefit of a running start, (and in fact almost a flat-footed straight up leap), blocks a shot in which it is clear that his fingertips are near the top of the backboard. Keep in mind, that Wilt had also been running up-and-down the floor (as he ALWAYS did), and dominating at BOTH ends (as he ALWAYS did.)

Of course, this substantiates what a Philly sports legend Sonny Hill claimed long ago...that he witnessed Chamberlain touching the top of the backboard. BTW, long time Sixer trainer Al Domenico also claimed to have witnessed it, as well. In fact, it was fairly common knowledge among NBA players that Wilt was capable of that exact feat.

The "Wilt-bashers" also constantly scoffed at the idea that Wilt, with a few short steps, could dunk a FT. Impossible they claimed. YET, none other than TEX WINTER, and in a VIDEO conversation, claims to have witnessed it. In fact, because of Wilt's KNOWN ability to accomplish that EXACT feat, the ruling bodies in BOTH the NBA and NCAA banned the dunking of FTs.

It was also WELL-KNOWN that Chamberlain was dunking on a 12 FT. RIM. His COACH even rolled out that rim while Wilt was at Kansas. Now, judging the VIDEO of Wilt, going straight up, without benefit of a running start, and nearly reaching the top of the backboard...is there any DOUBT that Wilt could EASILY have dunked on a 12 ft rim???

VIDEO FOOTAGE? There is footage of a game against the Bulls in the '71 playoffs, in which Wilt, again, going straight up, and with only a split second to react, blocks a shot, in which it CLEARLY shows Wilt's fingertips at the top of the square, and close to the 12 ft. mark. So what you ask? This was a Wilt, playing every minute of every game in that series, and running up-and-down the floor, and dominating at BOTH ends of the court. Furthermore, this was a 34 year old Wilt, playing with arthritis in one knee, and the other knee a year removed from MAJOR knee surgery, and...at over 300 lbs.

THAT Wilt, with a straight-up, split second leap, could reach the 12 ft. mark. And, at all of these combines throughout the years, we have GREAT leapers struggling to get to the 12'-6" mark. And yet a 34 year old Wilt, at over 300 lbs, and on a surgically repaired knee, with a straight-up leap, could nearly accomplish THAT same feat.

Of course, the same "anti-Chamberlain" clan disputed that a 35 year old Wilt was ROUTINELY knocking Kareem's "unblockable" sky hook all over the gym. Guess what, we got VIDEO footage of Chamberlain not only blocking ONE sky-hook, he did it TWICE, and within about FIVE SECONDS of each other. Of course, those that witnessed the Kareem-Wilt battles would attest to the fact that Chamberlain blocking Kareem's skyhook was a common feat.

Then the "Wilt-doubters" ripped those that claimed that Wilt didn't have an outside shot. Yes, we had a HOF COACH claiming that Wilt came into the league with a GOOD OUTSIDE shot, BUT, the "Chamberlain-bashers" demanded more. They wanted VIDEO FOOTAGE. Well, low-and-behold, VIDEO FOOTAGE of MINUTES of SINGLE games surfaced, especially while he was at Kansas...and guess what???...here was Wilt REPEATEDLY hitting 15+ shots, 15+ bank shots, even 15+ ft. JUMP SHOTS, and from a variety of locations.

Then with what little the "anti-Wilt" clan had left...they argued that Wilt never faced the defenses that the "modern" centers faced. Of course, I produced a TON of articles, even by CELTIC writers, and using quotes from CELTIC players, in which they claimed that not only was Wilt doubled, he was often tripled, or even swarmed, AND ABUSED. We also have a VIDEO conversation in which Chamberlain claimed that he was doubled and tripled, and THEN Russell was guardiing him on top of that...and guess what??? Russell was sitting right next to Wilt when he made that claim. And not a peep out Bill, either.

Of course, one poster produced a quarter, of a half, of a game in the '64 Finals, in which Wilt had several shots against single coverage. I responded by posting the second quarter, of that half, of that SAME game, in which Wilt was DOUBLED, or TRIPLED, or even SWARMED on nearly EVERY possession down the floor.

As for some of these other "anti-Wilt" claims. That he couldn't possibly bench 500+ lbs. Well, we have an SI article in 1964, and long before Wilt reached anywhere near his maximum size and strength, in which Wilt was already benching 425 lbs. We also have an EYE-WITNESS account, and on tape, in which the interviewee claims to have witnessed Chamberlain benching 465 lbs...at age 59!

In Robert Cherry's book, he interviewed a well-known weight lifter, who was 6-5 and 250 lbs, and who was known to have benched well over 500 lbs, who had worked out with Wilt, and who claimed that Wilt was the strongest man he ever met.

Of course, you could just ASK any of the players who actually played with and against Wilt in his career, and to a man, they would claim that he was the strongest player they ever faced, and many would say that there has not been anyone since as strong.

There is an interview by Howard Cosell, with both Mohammed Ali and Wilt, in which Cosell claims that Wilt was among the strongest athletes in the WORLD.

Here again, just GOOGLE Wilt's Bench-press, or his strength, or his vertical, or even his speed...the internet is PLASTERED with incredible stories of Chamberlain's awesome physical feats.

I have also long asked this question...Chamberlain played with, and against, DOZENS of coachs in his career. He was covered by DOZENS of members of the media (probably hundreds.) He played with, and against, HUNDREDS (if not thousands) of players (both in college and the pros.) And there were hundreds of thousands who SAW Chamberlain PLAY.

Now, if all of these staggering physical accomplishments were NOT true, why has there not been ONE LEGITIMATE person come forth, and DISPUTE them? If Wilt couldn't bench 500 lbs, don't you think that SOMEONE would have stepped up and DISPUTED it? Same with his freakish leaps. If Wilt couldn't touch the top of the backboard, don't you think that some teammate might have witnessed Chamberlain trying, and failing, and coming forth to DISPUTE it?

Nope...we have DOZENS, HUNDREDS, even THOUSANDS of first-hand accounts of Chamberlain's amazing physical feats, and virtually NONE that DISPUTE them.

Of course, as more and more information comes forth, we are finding out that all of those accounts were right on.

Furthermore, the "Wilt-detractors", who have been spewing LIES about Chamberlain are being exposed as more-and-more information, and VIDEO footage becomes available. This NONSENSE that Wilt was a "stats-padding", "loser" who "choked" in his biggest games has been BLOWN to shreds.

If anything, the more that comes out, the more affirmation we have that Wilt was on a planet of his own, and that there has never been another basketball player, or even an athlete, like him since. Many of those so-called "myths" are now becoming documented FACTS.

[jlauber]

How can OP and his kind always miss this logic is beyond me.

Sure, there's no footage of these feats, or attempts at them.

However there is plenty of other footage of Wilt / Russel playing ball...

NOTHING in that footage could EVEN HINT at them topping today's above average athletes in verticals, or what not.


Then I get reminded of how Wilt supposedly had sex with 10,000 mountain lions,
or how he tossed a woman by her tail...
(or was it the other way around??)



...And I realize that logic has nothing to do with it.

Like this logic...

The world's LONG JUMP record is currently at 29' 4"...which was set 20 years ago. Oh, and the PREVIOUS record? 29' 2", which was set in 1968...or about in the middle of Chamberlain's NBA career.

So, since 1968, we have seen the long jump mark broken, 20 years ago, with a leap that was 2" longer than in 1968.

[La Frescobaldi]

I repped you, La Frescobaldi. Great link, man.

I'm in Kblaze's camp: it seems feasible, and I'm more inclined to believe it's possible given what other top leapers have accomplished related to the feat.

What I hate about all this kind of thread is, there's not any footage (that I know of) showing what Bill Russell could do.

People scoff about Chamberlain - well they can shut up now, because there's proof (although even when they see the footage they deny it... ). But there's no footage like that of Russell.

Who knows though, maybe something like what we found on Chamberlain will show up.

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I was never a Russell fan. He was a cold, distant, arrogant dude. He wore a black cape and he really seemed kind of sinister. If he looked at us teenagers at all, standing around out on the street before the game... it was a stony eyed hawk's stare that wasn't ever going to bring him any friends.

When the teams ran out on the court... Russell didn't. He walked, slowly, and he had an air of just arrogance - man you could almost get a whiff of egomania in the air. This is me looking back now of course... back then all I knew was just here was some bad kinda @ss.

Well some guys just exude charisma, & other guys are like a energy beam. Know what I mean? When Jordan ran on the court there was an air about him, that undefineable, charismatic aura - His Airness!!

Well, Wilt had a regal air, like a duke you might see in England. Sometimes and especially as a Laker, Chamberlain had a majesty that just made you look and look, almost like, where's his sceptre?

Or Shaq with his fantasmagorphic gigantism but yet you can still see the joyful little kid twinkle in his eye from a mile away

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Not Russell.
Russell was just Confidence, in its purest, distilled form - like raw spirits that you can't taste without your entire mouth head lungs going right on fire.

Every inch of Russell said - "My team is here to destroy your hopes and dreams, and there is nothing. NOTHING. Anyone in this arena can do about it."

Not a likeable persona you understand.

But lemme tell you, dude was a serious talent on a basketball court.

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I never saw Russell in his great days, the early 60s. Chamberlain tore him apart every time I saw them match up.

But one thing I noticed different about Russell from any other player I ever saw.
Kareem would get furious if he got smoked; he would even start swinging at guys - like a matchstick version of Bob Lanier or Bill LameButtocks.... and if Chamberlain got smoked, he'd demand the ball on the left block for the next play or two so he could smash it down their face. Jordan too, and Bird - you could see the cold fury in their face and they'd go out and destroy the other team.

Not Russell. His game never changed whether Boston was down by 40 or up by 40. He didn't care, at all, that he was being destroyed. He was coming after you just the same. It affected him not one single iota.

And that, more than anything else, to me, is what made Bill Russell great.

[millwad]

Like this logic...

The world's LONG JUMP record is currently at 29' 4"...which was set 20 years ago. Oh, and the PREVIOUS record? 29' 2", which was set in 1968...or about in the middle of Chamberlain's NBA career.

So, since 1968, we have seen the long jump mark broken, 20 years ago, with a leap that was 2" longer than in 1968.

The difference?

We actually have video proof of Bob Beamon's record; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEt_Xgg8dzc

We don't have any visual proof at all of Wilt having anything close to a 50 inch vertical (like Wilt claimed he had) or even 45 inch vertical, that means that he would had to have a better vertical then Spud who had a 42 inch vertical which Wilt really wasn't anywhere close to by the video "proof" we've seen. The only "proof" we have is a video of Wilt blocking a shot from a terrible and misleading angle..

And considering his other tall tales I believe in many of those myths just as little as I believe that he had a 50 inch vert..

If Wilt would have the vertical you guys claim, then he would have a better vertical then Stefan Holm which is just a pathetic statement;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L28NyIquzIQ

And still no answer about Wilt's standing vertical..

[jlauber]

The difference?

We actually have video proof of Bob Beamon's record; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEt_Xgg8dzc

We don't have any visual proof at all of Wilt having anything close to a 50 inch vertical (like Wilt claimed he had) or even 45 inch vertical, that means that he would had to have a better vertical then Spud who had a 42 inch vertical which Wilt really wasn't anywhere close to by the video "proof" we've seen. The only "proof" we have is a video of Wilt blocking a shot from a terrible and misleading angle..

And considering his other tall tales I believe in many of those myths just as little as I believe that he had a 50 inch vert..

If Wilt would have the vertical you guys claim, then he would have a better vertical then Stefan Holm which is just a pathetic statement;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L28NyIquzIQ

And still no answer about Wilt's standing vertical..

I could not care less what Wilt's vertical was. However, I stand by my statement that no other legitimate NBA player ever REACHED the heights that Chamberlain did. We have VIDEO footage with his fingertips within a couple of inches of the top of the backboard...on a leap in which he went straight up, and with little time to react.

We have EYE-WITNESS accounts of Chamberlain touching the top of the backboard. Wilt's coach at KU rolled out a 12 ft. hoop and we have claims that Wilt was dunking on it. We have Tex Winter being stunned when he witnessed a high-school Chamberlain dunking FTs with only a couple of steps (and subsequently, the NCAA and NBA banned that "freakish" activity.)

We have VIDEO footage of a 35 year old Wilt, at over 300 lbs., and on a surgically repaired knee blocking TWO of a phyically PRIME Kareem's "unblockable" skyhooks, and within a matter of seconds.


We KNOW that Wilt won HIGH-JUMP championships (and he did so PART-TIME, and in one case, the nest morning after a brutal basketball game the night before.) We KNOW that Chamberlain was a LONG-JUMPER, and a TRIPLE-JUMPER at Kansas (among his several events.) We also KNOW that he was nearly 7-2 (some would claim he was taller than that), with a MEASURED 7-8 wingspan, and huge hands.

And once again...so MANY claims and eye-witness accounts of Chamberlain's amazing physical feats, and yes, even VIDEO footage of some of them, and yet, not ONE LEGITIMATE source that was around in the Wilt-era has come forth to DISPUTE any of them.

[32Dayz]

Psileas, you're not like these obsessed fan boys you do know you have my respect

You do know that no one wants wants your respect or respects you right?

[PTB Fan]

PTB, what are you basing that on? Just a hunch?

Just assuming..

They were truly great leapers. There weren't measurements back in the day for vertical jump... Russell and Wilt demonstrated a great vertical jump when they blocked shots.

It probably doesn't sound reasonable.. but i think that they were great leapers overall.

[La Frescobaldi]

I didn't say without a running start. This was the deal that changed the rules after all. You could take a few steps and then step from the line and shoot. FYI, it takes definitely less than a full court for a great athlete to acquire like 90% of his full speed and take off. I don't know how many steps Wilt would need, but I would be surprised if he couldn't do it.

Wilt didn't have 50 inches of vertical and no big man ever did - I'd love to know otherwise.
Spud Webb, as far as I've heard, was closer to 45-46 inches.

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Tex Winter was the guy who got the rule for free-throws changed. He talks about it in this Youtube clip. Conversation about No. 13 starts about 3:15, and Tex talking about going to Kansas Universtiy and watching Wilt Chamberlain dunking his free throws starts about 3:50 in the interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyz-FhP2ONk

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Psileas ~~ you rock the boards and even though I don't agree with all of them I want you to know your posts are appreciated by this old geezer.

[CavaliersFTW]

That's cool and all, but no, he couldn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2AlFrOj5Mc

moron.