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Old 09-24-2006, 01:45 PM   #1
KnickFan4Life
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Default Can Kobe score better than Jordan?

I was thinking about the 81 point game, and remembered that it didn't go into overtime. A lot of Jordans games where he scored 50+ were games that went into overtime. Kobe scored 60 in three quarters. IMO he can score better than Jordan when he is hot. Am I right?
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Old 09-24-2006, 02:18 PM   #2
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Jordan played in a era were the game was geared towards more tough nose defense like the bad boy pistons there is a couple people that could argue that if Jordan played today in his prime he could score 100 points.

I'm a die hard Kobe fan but he plays in a game were there is no hand checking or physical defense unlike MJ
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Old 09-24-2006, 03:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K*O*B*E
Jordan played in a era were the game was geared towards more tough nose defense like the bad boy pistons there is a couple people that could argue that if Jordan played today in his prime he could score 100 points.

I'm a die hard Kobe fan but he plays in a game were there is no hand checking or physical defense unlike MJ

Exactly. Plus, look at the foul calls. Players today go to the line so much it is ridiculous. Kobe shoots 11 free-throws a game on most nights and when he went for 81 he was in the twenties. If Michael Jordan played in today's game I think he would definately score 100.
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Old 09-24-2006, 04:01 PM   #4
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MJ was a better scorer and a more prolific scorer.

as pippen said in his blog MJ could break wilt's record of 100 points in this watered down league which doesnt allow defense and sends the guards to the line so much. i remember a game in which MJ scored 64 against shaq and he took 47 shots to do it, the difference is that MJ never abbused the 3 pointer and he only had 9 free throw attempts.

MJ shot over 50% most of his career against better defense when handchecking was allowed and even forearms and muggings were a natural part of the game.
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Old 09-24-2006, 08:05 PM   #5
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Holy crap. Kobe took 46 in his 81 pts...but then again a lot of free throws too.

But once again...this is a message to pippen...forget the past...let's respect kobe for what he does.


Some times i think pippen just hates Kobe...I mean he couldnt stop Kobe when lakers met portland a lot.

and also when u notice pippen talking about Kobe he disrespects a lot....

For crying out loud Pippen said this year he would take LBJ over Michael at this age.
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Old 09-24-2006, 10:26 PM   #6
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I don't think comparisons like this are fair to either great player... different situations, different eras and different players.
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Old 09-24-2006, 11:35 PM   #7
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No NO No . .. Forgett the ERA. The Game is the Same, The Rules Changes a Little bit But is the Same Thing. You Run the Ball to the other side and Take Your Shoot.

It All About Actituded, It All About Heart, It All About Furious

Michel Has Good opponents in Detroit, In Boston, In L.A. and More But Kobey Have something more Damage . . . Kobey need to Prove He Is The Best Player in The League . . .All around the NBA want a Substitue for MJ and Don't See How Good is Kobey, on't See Kobey Bryant is the Best.

They Compared D.Wade, L.James, V.Carter, T-Mac for the MJ Place and Don't See That Place already is for One Player . . . K.Bryant. This Guys are a Good Players but Not Greates Not Bigs. Well I Think L.Jame Has the Actituded for Create his own Place in the History.

Even More, K.Bryant is going to Arrive Far away that MJ.

Why? His Heart and Actituded is His Motivation.

ElebronD
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Old 09-25-2006, 12:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elebrond
No NO No . .. Forgett the ERA. The Game is the Same, The Rules Changes a Little bit But is the Same Thing. You Run the Ball to the other side and Take Your Shoot.

lol its attitude not actiuded. are you german? you're capitalzing all the nouns and even some non-nouns.

language dificulties aside, its is not fair to MJ to compare him to kobe. you do realize that kobe hasn't had to deal with the mugging/forearming/hand checking that michael did?

and no, it is not the same game.
michael's era: you run the ball to the other side dealing with handchecks/elbows/forearms...then you take your shot and miss it or make it
kobe's era: you run it to the other basket and either make it or go to the FT line...or miss sometimes.

i dont think its that today's players are all that different talent-wise from back then...but they were certainly molded a whole lot differently having to deal with the old style of defense. would dwayne wade have been able to succeed back then? how many super-duper-stars were there that were only
6'3, 6'4? (Not a rhetorical question I didnt watch basketball in the 90's.)

that said, we'll never know how Kobe would have performed back in the MJ era. We've seen Kobe make crazy shots under intense defensive pressure and I think thats the kind of talent MJ had. BUT, we havent seen kobe make the shots with a hand anchored hard on his back and the same phyical intensity Mj had to deal with. would he have been able to overcome "the jordan rules" defense?

I think MJ would have tried to take over the game in the 4th quarter of that game 7 in the suns series. Isn't something that defines great scorers taking over the game when they are needed?
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Old 09-25-2006, 12:49 AM   #9
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U guys have to agree though with the way they call the rules and stuff Kobe should be averaging 20+ ft's per game if the game is how u say it really is.

Do you guys remember what the games are like? How many times does kobe get fouled and the refs dont call it. I used to see michael Jordan get to the line everytime he rose to shoot.

they compensate. Now because there is no hand checking they let them play a little more making it a physical game.

Come on fella's this is the NBA...There aint no ***** fouls...everytime Kobe drives in he gets hammered...and ur talking about a 230 pounder that can run, jump, and stay on his feet.

How many times do we see Kobe get hammered in the face and he tries not to fight?

These are fouls that if i ever got fouled like that, I would need about 5 minutes per to get up.

Its not touch fouls at all. And if you all forgot...watch the season again.

Kobe also missed a chance to go to the line and shoot ft's in the end of game one where he had a bump on his head against the suns.

Bottom Line: Kobe is not getting away with anything...he should be shooting more ft's
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Old 09-25-2006, 01:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
U guys have to agree though with the way they call the rules and stuff Kobe should be averaging 20+ ft's per game if the game is how u say it really is.

Do you guys remember what the games are like? How many times does kobe get fouled and the refs dont call it. I used to see michael Jordan get to the line everytime he rose to shoot.

Jordan did not take more than 8.5 FT's per game in any full season after 1989 (he was age 25-26 then). Know how many players took more than 8.5 FTA/gm this year? 7, all of them perimeter players, including 6 of them over 10 FTA/gm. Are they all more aggressive than a young Jordan was offensively? Hardly. So Jordan got all the calls, huh?


Kobe's mark of 10.3 FTA/gm this season was more than all but two of Jordan's seasons, and those two seasons were when Jordan went to the hole relentlessly; Kobe, by contrast, takes jumpers for 80% of his shots yet gets to the line more -- how does that work? And it's not just Kobe, either, as the numbers above show -- FT attempts have been artificially inflated for all perimeter players this year due to the new rules.
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Old 09-25-2006, 02:22 AM   #11
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well I don't think he consistently took 10.3 per game

He had over 20 attempts in some games like his 62 points he had 30 or something like that.

it wasnt exactly every game he went with ease.

I think there was a period either this year or last year where he averaged less than 3 attempts per game for a long stretch.

So I have to say his average is up because of games where he takes so many f them.

other than that he would prbably be around an 8.5 too.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
well I don't think he consistently took 10.3 per game

He had over 20 attempts in some games like his 62 points he had 30 or something like that.

it wasnt exactly every game he went with ease.

I think there was a period either this year or last year where he averaged less than 3 attempts per game for a long stretch.

So I have to say his average is up because of games where he takes so many f them.

other than that he would prbably be around an 8.5 too.

It was 10.8 FTA/gm the first 50-ish games of the season and about 9.7 the final 30 games. As for it not being evenly spread out (i.e., taking 20 FTA in one game and 4 in another), well, guess what -- that's the way it is for everyone. My post wasn't to single out Kobe, more to show that the average FTA for perimeter players in general has been inflated due to the new rules, which has inflated scoring by 2-4 ppg across the board depending on the style of player. My post was also meant to address the "Jordan got so many calls" BS, which the above evidence refutes.
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Old 09-25-2006, 02:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
My post was also meant to address the "Jordan got so many calls" BS, which the above evidence refutes.

But u gotta also admit that there were games where he seemingly went to the line on every play...once in a while he'd have big free throw games.
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
But u gotta also admit that there were games where he seemingly went to the line on every play...once in a while he'd have big free throw games.

Here are Jordan's games of 18+ FTA for his final three seasons as a Bull ('96-'98):

18
19
20
21
21
19
18
24


As you can see, in that three year span, he had 8 games of 18+ FT's, with an average of 20.0 FTA in those 8 games. For comparison's sake, here are Kobe's games of 18+ FTA just from this year:

25
19
19
21
20
26
18
23

Again, we see 8 games (in one season as opposed to 3 seasons plus 3 deep playoff runs), with an average of 21.4 FTA in those 8 games. And again, this is from one season as opposed to 3.5 seasons (which includes 45+ playoff games). Like I said, scoring in the league among perimeter players has been artificially inflated by 2-4 ppg depending on the player. And it's not just Kobe, as I noted earlier. Here are Wade's games of 18+ FTA from this season alone:


18
19
21
19
21
20
19
19
18
19
18
25
21


Here we see 13 games of 18+ FTA in a single season (plus playoffs), with an average of 20.5 FTA in those 13 games. And for good measure, here are Lebron's from this season:


20
19
28 (more than Jordan's career high, btw)
23
18
18


Only 6 games of 18+ here, but with an average of 21.0 FTA/gm in those 6 games. Again, this is 6 in one season as compared to 8 in 3 seasons for Jordan. Put simply, the evidence does not bear your assertion -- that Jordan got so many calls -- out in the slightest; in fact, it bolsters my contention that scoring averages are being artificially inflated at the foul line this season due to the new perimeter defense rules.
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Old 09-25-2006, 05:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR SETH
Exactly. Plus, look at the foul calls. Players today go to the line so much it is ridiculous. Kobe shoots 11 free-throws a game on most nights and when he went for 81 he was in the twenties. If Michael Jordan played in today's game I think he would definately score 100.
Kobe averaged 9.9 fts a game which was 4th in the NBA. He attempted 20 freethrows in the 81 point game, hardly anything when you consider he took 46 shots right? Wade averaged 17 ft attempts during the Finals so 20 in a game where you scored 81 points is NOTHING, not even close to a career high in FT attempts for him.
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