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Old 11-15-2014, 07:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

The Mussies didn't do shit.
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBeasley08
I've heard it said that the English are a Germanic people?
after the celts and romans, it was indeed germanic-related tribes that conquered england. i.e., the angles, the saxons, the normans (vikings who had already conquered northern france).

but like the aryans who conquered india, the victors typically merge and intermingle with the previous tenants, and it all becomes a big hybrid. so the english are a mixture of celtic, germanic, latin and many variations of those peoples, plus additional smaller influences.

but yea, the english language is based on the old west german structure and vocabulary, mixed primarily with norman french and evolved from there.
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:34 PM   #18
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigantes
after the celts and romans, it was indeed germanic-related tribes that conquered england. i.e., the angles, the saxons, the normans (vikings who had already conquered northern france).

but like the aryans who conquered india, the victors typically merge and intermingle with the previous tenants, and it all becomes a big hybrid. so the english are a mixture of celtic, germanic, latin and many variations of those peoples, plus additional smaller influences.

but yea, the english language is based on the old west german structure and vocabulary, mixed primarily with norman french and evolved from there.
Isn't the Aryan invasion thought to be bogus? Rather just migration over a large period of time

As for the English, that makes perfect sense. Thank you for the explanation
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

We still know very little about how the Native Americans got there.
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBeasley08
Isn't the Aryan invasion thought to be bogus? Rather just migration over a large period of time

As for the English, that makes perfect sense. Thank you for the explanation
np.

re: aryans,
yes indeed, i believe it was correctly a combination of migrations / smallish-scale invasions in to india over time, altho there were a darker-skinned peoples already there.

for example from what i understand, most of the (many, many) gods worshipped today in india are combinations and transformations of the original gods with the (much smaller) number the aryans brought with them.
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Old 11-15-2014, 09:20 PM   #21
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigantes
after the celts and romans, it was indeed germanic-related tribes that conquered england. i.e., the angles, the saxons, the normans (vikings who had already conquered northern france).

but like the aryans who conquered india, the victors typically merge and intermingle with the previous tenants, and it all becomes a big hybrid. so the english are a mixture of celtic, germanic, latin and many variations of those peoples, plus additional smaller influences.

but yea, the english language is based on the old west german structure and vocabulary, mixed primarily with norman french and evolved from there.
Let's be careful not to get people mixed up with language and culture.

The English mainly consist of the native people of the British isles. To say they are some kind of hybrid of Celtic, Germanic and Latin (?) peoples is just not true.

First, it depends what you mean by "Celtic". When people hear the term Celtic, they mainly think of Irish and Scottish people, but in modern times, it's actually been debated whether its appropriate for these people to even be labeled as Celtic. ASSUMING that by "Celtic" what you meant was native British, then that part is true.

As for Germanic peoples, the problem with that is that it is relying too much on very outdated information and techniques. It used to be that the only way we could estimate the movement of populations was through language and culture. This makes perfect sense for migration, but in the age of empire and trade, this kind of technique gets sticky. It's gets difficult to tell the difference between if linguistic and cultural influences can be attributed to migration or due to trade/interactions with other populations. Of course, these days we now have DNA which is infinitely more reliable than tracking cultural things like religion, art and language. The truth is, Germanic people's genetic contribution to the English is maybe 5%. The people of the British isles are actually most genetically related to the northern Spanish.

The Irish, Scottish, welsh and english like to think they are different peoples, and culturally they are, but genetically they're all the same.

Last edited by NumberSix : 11-15-2014 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 11-15-2014, 10:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
Let's be careful not to get people mixed up with language and culture.

The English mainly consist of the native people of the British isles. To say they are some kind of hybrid of Celtic, Germanic and Latin (?) peoples is just not true.

First, it depends what you mean by "Celtic". When people hear the term Celtic, they mainly think of Irish and Scottish people, but in modern times, it's actually been debated whether its appropriate for these people to even be labeled as Celtic. ASSUMING that by "Celtic" what you meant was native British, then that part is true.

As for Germanic peoples, the problem with that is that it is relying too much on very outdated information and techniques. It used to be that the only way we could estimate the movement of populations was through language and culture. This makes perfect sense for migration, but in the age of empire and trade, this kind of technique gets sticky. It's gets difficult to tell the difference between if linguistic and cultural influences can be attributed to migration or due to trade/interactions with other populations. Of course, these days we now have DNA which is infinitely more reliable than tracking cultural things like religion, art and language. The truth is, Germanic people's genetic contribution to the English is maybe 5%. The people of the British isles are actually most genetically related to the northern Spanish.

The Irish, Scottish, welsh and english like to think they are different peoples, and culturally they are, but genetically they're all the same.
at the Mexican bar right now. I'll deal with your interesting notions later, brokowski.
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Old 11-15-2014, 11:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

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Originally Posted by KingBeasley08
The Vikings were the one's that came to America first. Unless they were Muslims, that idiot is still wrong.


Ataturk must be turning in his grave. Current Turkish President is destroying everything he stood for

I wasn't debating vikings, just stating that African Muslims prolly found America before Columbus.
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Old 11-16-2014, 03:09 AM   #24
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

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Originally Posted by Nowitness
I wasn't debating vikings, just stating that African Muslims prolly found America before Columbus.

How did they travel ?
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Old 11-17-2014, 01:21 AM   #25
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtucker
How did they travel ?

By boat? Were you presuming they flew?

There is a debate, and some thought, that African sailors landed in the Americas before and Europeans. Not a lot of people are involved in it though if I remember correctly. I haven't really had time to get to the literature myself but I intend to at some point. Very interesting stuff.
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:48 AM   #26
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Default Re: President of Turkey says MuslimsBy boat

So the Muslims discovered America by boat.........pretty amazing since they haven't even discovered soap..........
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Old 11-17-2014, 01:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBeasley08
True, cant say I know about Viking history. Are only Scandinavians really descended from the Vikings or do England and other North European countries in that category too.
The vikings who conducted raids on England, Ireland, and France, were mostly from Norway, and Denmark. The vikings involved in (slave)trade down the Volga river, and across the Black sea, and Caspian sea, were mostly Swedes. The vikings who guarded the Byzantine emperors were probably mostly Swedes, but some were certainly Danes, and Norwegians. The rest of northwestern Europe was Christian by the time you get to the viking age.

Many Danes, and Norwegians settled in Scotland, northern England, and Ireland as well. Dublin started off as a viking settlement. The name of the northern English city York (Jorvik) comes from the vikings, though the city was founded by the Romans centuries earlier. Throughout the 9th-10th centuries, much of northern England was a semi-autonomous region called the Danelaw, where viking settlers continued to live according to Danish custom, under their own leader. Northern (particularly the islands), and eastern Scotland was also heavily settled by vikings.

Over time, the Hiberno-Norse (Irish vikings), and Norwegian/Danish settlers in Great Britain, converted to Christianity, and began to identify as Irish, Scottish, or English. Some of the northern English dialects are apparently still heavily influenced by old Norse though.

The Normans, who conquered England in 1066, were sort of half vikings. The Normans were originally vikings who terrorized the coast of France. In order to stop the raids, the king of France just gave them the land, so that they would be responsible for defending it from their viking cousins. They took French wives, converted to Christianity, learned the French language, and basically became culturally French. A few generations later, they invaded England over a disputed succession to the English throne, and defeated Norwegians led by the famous viking Harald Hardrada, as well the English. After that, the Normans became the ruling class in England.

Swedes settled in southern Russia, and Ukraine, because it gave them convenient access to the Black, and Caspian seas. The Arab, and Byzantine empires were wealthier and more technologically advanced than the western European countries at that time, so it was important to have a trading route to Turkey (across the Black sea), and Iran (across the Caspian sea). These vikings were also absorbed by the local population, and eventually became Russians, and Ukrainians. In the west, most scholars think the name Rus' comes from ruots (rower) referring to the vikings, and that the Kievan Rus', and thus the roots of Russian civilization come from the vikings. Even if that's the case, it seems clear that they merged with the local Slavs, and adopted their language, pretty early on. There is some controversy over how all this happened, and not much of a historical record.

tl;dr: The vikings were Scandinavians, but the the history of the northern European countries overlaps a great deal. All northern Europeans have some connection to the vikings, even though the vikings came from Scandinavia specifically.

Quote:
I've heard it said that the English are a Germanic people? Not sure, that whole topic is confusing
English language comes from various Germanic peoples who conquered south east Britain, and settled there. They're the Angles (probably from north east Germany), Saxons (north west Germany), Jutes (Denmark), and Frisians (Netherlands). Prior to that, the native people of Great Britain spoke languages related to Welsh, which they received from earlier Celtic conquerors.

It's not clear to what extent these Germanic tribes, other conquerors, and settlers, replaced the Britons. Numbersix is going to say hardly at all; the British are all descended from ice age settlers, because of his UKIP/BNP anti-immigration agenda. If he cites anyone, it will probably Stephen Oppenheimer, a British pediatrician, who wrote a popular book about the subject.

Last edited by Inactive : 11-17-2014 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: President of Turkey says MuslimsBy boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimilian
This idiocy just goes to show the general opinions of most Westeners. This blatant racism is exactly the kind of stuff that was happening in NAZI Germany just before World War 2.

You do realise that Muslims ARE the cleanest people in the world do you not? If you knew anything (which you dont since im assuming youre America), youde know that the Koran makes it clear that all Muslims should keep themselves clean at all times. And just like you and the other racists in this thread keep alluding too, the majority of Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammad way to seriously. Well they would in this case as well, and they do.

When the Christians (mostly from England/France and Germany) marched to the Holy Land during the Crusades they stopped over in Serbia on the way. The hosts set up accommodation and meals for them, but were disgusted that their guests were using their hands to eat like savages. Your ancestors didnt even know what a knife and fork was.......

Dat ether was vicious. The bolded part made me LOL.

Seriously though I used to like TomTucker but has been progressively becoming way more bitch made over time. Similar situation with 9erempiree too. Dudes quality of posting has dropped like crazy since he started letting Muslims live rent free in his head.
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:33 PM   #30
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Default Re: President of Turkey says Muslims Discovered America

..........no soap and obvious no sense of humor....... i was joking, BUT:
.
You do realise that Muslims ARE the cleanest people in the world do you not?


-
then why do bus and cab drivers smell like shit and sweaty socks ?
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