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Old 01-14-2008, 04:24 PM   #31
AllNBAArenas
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Kobe will get a chance to discredit himself in the next few games without Bynum.
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
He's given them a more than solid low post presence on defense and on offense which they were SORELY lacking. He's put up several monster games, is an intimidater, etc. etc.

Put it this way, the Lakers didn't start to look like a top team until what happened? Bynum came of age. Kobe isn't playing any better than he has before, he's shooting 44% in fact.

Like I said, I'm not saying Bynum DEFINITELY has been his equal or better only that this attitude of it not even being worthy of discussion is absurd.
Yep. What Bynum did for the Lakers is take care of his position, giving them an advantage at the 5, at both ends of the floor.
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllNBAArenas
Or maybe Kobe isn't really a top 5 player. But whatever, doesn't matter what you criteria is for "top 5", the big man once again has become more impactful to the Lakers than flashy Kobe.

I'm simply putting what you're saying into context. Is Bryant a top 10 player in the league? If so, and you want to say that Bynum is more important to the Lakers right now than Bryant is and that he's the more crucial of the two, you have to be willing to call Bynum a top 10 player as well.

It would be extremely difficult for you to name a top 5 or 10 player who was less important to his team than a teammate, and have that teammate not be a top 5 or top 10 player himself.
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

A good big man has more impact than a great swingman: it is the nature of the game.

Not that Bynum is at the level to surpass Kobe as far as impact for the Lakers- but it is a much closer race than people want to believe.

Great thread.
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:31 PM   #35
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
He's given them a more than solid low post presence on defense and on offense which they were SORELY lacking. He's put up several monster games, is an intimidater, etc. etc.

Put it this way, the Lakers didn't start to look like a top team until what happened? Bynum came of age. Kobe isn't playing any better than he has before, he's shooting 44% in fact. There are several factors in the Lakers play, but the most important has certainly been Bynum's emergence. I don't really see how you can deny that.

Like I said, I'm not saying Bynum DEFINITELY has been his equal or better only that this attitude of it not even being worthy of discussion is absurd.
i think that reaction sparks because the threads tend to come from people who are out to sh!t on kobe for the sake of sh!tting on kobe - generally because it makes them feel better about lebron or duncan or dirk or whoever. even if bynum's argument is valid, there is an instinctive reaction against known haters spouting off. personally i just don't agree. i think kobe brings much more to the table than bynum does, but they will miss him. just not as much as the op is suggesting.

Quote:
The Lakers should be able to maintain close to their current level of play then. Let's watch and see shall we.

give them a couple games to adjust to losing a starter, and assuming all their other bigs are healthy and in shape (i'm not sure about some of them), i would expect them to not maintain their pace but to "tread water" as i said, which would be to win about 50 - 55% of their games. there's more to winning than just who plays. there's chemistry and there's strength of schedule. i think a phil jackson team should adjust quickly and not lose too many at first, but i know the strength of schedule is rough in the first week. they would have been happy to win 3 out of 5 of those games WITH bynum. then it will just be a matter of their other bigs stepping up.

EDIT - just found out that mihm and vlad are both hurt. that's actually much worse news than it sounds like because kwame is a foul magnet and turiaff is too small to play center consistantly. sounds like you were actually right thread starter. they don't have a competent back up C, so they are going to suffer. they'll need monster games from the perimeter guys just to stay afloat.

Last edited by dejordan : 01-14-2008 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:35 PM   #36
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

The Lakers have really good chemistry and seem to be playing for each other...Kwame has been playing hard and with heart and I think if they play together and Kobe rises to the occasion they can really steady the ship hopefully still get homecourt...
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:40 PM   #37
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
i think that reaction sparks because the threads tend to come from people who are out to sh!t on kobe for the sake of sh!tting on kobe - generally because it makes them feel better about lebron or duncan or dirk or whoever. even if bynum's argument is valid, there is an instinctive reaction against known haters spouting off. personally i just don't agree. i think kobe brings much more to the table than bynum does, but they will miss him. just not as much as the op is suggesting.

I mean, really who gives a shyt about that except for females or overly emotional hero worshippers? It doesn't matter one iota what agenda someone has if what they say is true and they bring logical ideas to support their arguments.

And forget about an "instinctive reaction" WTF is that? That means you are letting your emotions get the better of your ability to judge something. Again, **** that.

I'll put it this way. You may hate say, George Bush but if he told you that a tree sprouted leaves would you go "Well, my instinctive action is to punch him in the face because I hate him and he's likely just popping shyt because he's a hater and blah blah blah"? Of course not.

And Kobe may indeed bring "much" more to the table than Bynum does but that's not the same thing as discussing who's play has been MORE IMPORTANT to the Lakers at this juncture in the season. Completely different. I'll maintain that anyone acting as if SO FAR THIS SEASON, no argument can be made that Bynum has had equal or similar importance to the Lakers start is either a groupie or refusing to examine the facts out of some blind reverence for Kobe.
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:43 PM   #38
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

I think at some point, even those who don't like Kobe Bryant are going to get tired of the negativity about him.

Its gotten so bad lately I dont even care anymore. Just more of the same and i'm shrugging it off now. Do your thing. But I think at some time, maybe even soon, even those who dislike him are going to be so oversaturated with these threads that its going to start having the opposite effect of whats intended. It'll be interesting if thats the circumstance under which his popularity actually grows.

And one could try to say its just about Drew's progression and nothing else, but if it was a different star's team he was on there wouldnt be near this much commotion. Certainly not 4-5 threads per page on this subject specifically, or what have you.

I'm not saying Drew isnt extremely vital to our success. He's a clearcut 2nd, with no one even close behind, and he's getting better. Or was. But just the spirit of this thread is in the same negative, more anti-kobe than pro-drew vein as all the others that have been posted. And eventually people are just going get exasperated with it. Ive seen it happen before.

Be interesting watching the board the next few months to see if this plays out.
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:47 PM   #39
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllNBAArenas
It's not a chance to just say it, it's a chance to prove it. Lets just wait and see how well Kobe does without Bynum.
Go search it up last 2 seasons. 2 playoff apperances. 1 time, almost beating the suns @ Game 7, all lead by Kobe. So you FAILED.

Unlike you, Lakers fans like myself are hoping we can see the next generation of Kobe & Shaq Bynum.

Last edited by clayton : 01-14-2008 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:50 PM   #40
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by picc84
I think at some point, even those who don't like Kobe Bryant are going to get tired of the negativity about him.

Its gotten so bad lately I dont even care anymore. Just more of the same and i'm shrugging it off now. Do your thing. But I think at some time, maybe even soon, even those who dislike him are going to be so oversaturated with these threads that its going to start having the opposite effect of whats intended. It'll be interesting if thats the circumstance under which his popularity actually grows.

And one could try to say its just about Drew's progression and nothing else, but if it was a different star's team he was on there wouldnt be near this much commotion. Certainly not 4-5 threads per page on this subject specifically, or what have you.

I'm not saying Drew isnt extremely vital to our success. He's a clearcut 2nd, with no one even close behind, and he's getting better. Or was. But just the spirit of this thread is in the same negative, more anti-kobe than pro-drew vein as all the others that have been posted. And eventually people are just going get exasperated with it. Ive seen it happen before.

Be interesting watching the board the next few months to see if this plays out.

Would you spare me? The Kobe24s,BULLS,Poseidons, etc. etc. have far outweighed people who disparage Bryant so please. There's a reason Kobe Fanatics are routinely voted the worst "fans".

At any rate, I'm failing to see, given the season so far, how this thread is so far out in left field. Most people touting Bynum haven't said that he's BETTER than Kobe only at this time, in this short season so far, an argument can be made that he's been of near, equal or greater importance than him.

I'm failing to see what's sooooooooo outrageous about that.
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:02 PM   #41
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Obviously I didn't mean you, knoe, so relax. I'd expect you to be oversaturated with these threads as much as i'd expect McDonalds to decide they had enough of fast food sales.

My post wasnt about the threadstarters claim or its legitimacy. It was about the relishment for the opportunity to do so, which will continue and likely grow indefinitely. We'll see what kind of effect it has.
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:07 PM   #42
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
come on, man. he plays less than 30 minutes a game and scores under 15 (don't know the exact stats).

Actually it's 13/10/2 and 2 blocks on 63% shooting in 28mpg. The interesting thing is he's #1 in the entire NBA in Fg%, #2 in Ts%, #6 in rebound rate, #7 in block rate and #2 in offensive rating. That's incredibly efficient no matter how you look at it.

His win shares in 14 compared to Kobe's 16. Per 22.8 vs. Kobe's 24.8. His +/- numbers and Roland rating is almost identical to Kobe's, too. I don't think his impact is necessarily equal or bigger than Kobe at the moment but when you consider the fact that he's a shotblocking and intimidating big man that effects the game more than a guard, I don't think it's completely outrageous for someone to think that he's close.
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:44 PM   #43
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
The Lakers have really good chemistry and seem to be playing for each other...Kwame has been playing hard and with heart and I think if they play together and Kobe rises to the occasion they can really steady the ship hopefully still get homecourt...

If Kobe does rise to the occasion and the team togetherness doesn't fall apart over confusion about how they fit into Kobe's style of play THEN I will feel that I was wrong about him. But I have seen enough from him to have major doubts.



Quote:
A good big man has more impact than a great swingman: it is the nature of the game.

Exactly, unless your name says Jordan with a 23 underneath it. Even Lebron who is waaaay more of a complete player than Kobe is probably going to need a great big man or a couple of very good ones to get that chip.
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:19 PM   #44
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Please. The Lakers are not even a playoff team without Kobe.
This is so ridiculous. Did'nt the Lakers start last season at 26-13 withiut Bynum's great play? People are severely underating what having a player like Kobe is doing to Bynum's game. And while Bynum certainly makes Kobe's job a lot easier its not nearly as much as Kobe for bynum. All you clowns do is consistently look to NEVER give credit to Kobe.
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:28 PM   #45
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Default Re: In the next 6 games you are going to see why Bynum is more valuable than Kobe....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nba_on_nbc
Actually it's 13/10/2 and 2 blocks on 63% shooting in 28mpg. The interesting thing is he's #1 in the entire NBA in Fg%, #2 in Ts%, #6 in rebound rate, #7 in block rate and #2 in offensive rating. That's incredibly efficient no matter how you look at it.

His win shares in 14 compared to Kobe's 16. Per 22.8 vs. Kobe's 24.8. His +/- numbers and Roland rating is almost identical to Kobe's, too. I don't think his impact is necessarily equal or bigger than Kobe at the moment but when you consider the fact that he's a shotblocking and intimidating big man that effects the game more than a guard, I don't think it's completely outrageous for someone to think that he's close.

Given that criteria, I could assert that Bynum is among the company of players like Steve Nash, D. Wade, Yao Ming, and AI, and it wouldn't be "completely outrageous."

Unfortunately, people aren't simply asserting that he's close (which most still wouldn't agree with), but rather that he has exceeded Bryant... that the Lakers are still a good team with Bynum and merely a meiocre team with Bryant.
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