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Old 01-29-2008, 02:25 PM   #31
ChuckOakley
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

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Originally Posted by guy
Yea, I'm an AI fan, but I wouldn't mind it that much. AI in Denver doesn't seem to be going anywhere, cause at this point they might not even make the playoffs. And he has the option to opt out of his contract at the end of this year and sign with a contender, and considering he'll be playing for a bad team like NJ, I think thats exactly what would happen.

Which is more reason why the deal does not make sense for NJ. They'd essentially lose Kidd for nothing one year earlier. Tne Nugs would have to include AI, Klienza, JR Smith and a pick or two for AI and Collins. If I'm NJ I almost want Camby or Nene included as opposed to AI.
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:41 PM   #32
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

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Originally Posted by ChuckOakley
Which is more reason why the deal does not make sense for NJ. They'd essentially lose Kidd for nothing one year earlier. The Nugs would have to include AI, Klienza, JR Smith and a pick or two for AI and Collins. If I'm NJ I almost want Camby or Nene included as opposed to AI.

That actually seems like a better deal. AI could actually opt out of his contract and the end of the year though, and if he doesn't that probably means things are going well in NJ. So AI is either a $19 million expiring contract, or a great player making the team better then it was before. I'm definitely not saying AI is better then Kidd, cause he's not, but we know from the past that alot of times when star players get traded, they play better for at least 1 or 2 years and have a huge impact on their teammates. And another thing, this might not be the best deal for NJ. But if trade talks with LA, Dallas, Cleveland don't go through, and they deal with Denver, I think AI going to NJ straight up for Kidd or in a package deal is the most realistic trade.

And I don't see NJ wanting Nene considering he has a big contract with 5 years left, and he's already had so many health issues in his career, and even if NJ wanted Camby, I doubt Denver would give him up considering he's their only good defensive player, and their healthiest big man.
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:51 PM   #33
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

Kidd is so overrated its crazy.
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:57 PM   #34
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

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Kidd is so overrated its crazy.

That's why now's the time to trade him for NJ. His value probably won't be this high again. (Getting triple doubles, star on Team USA, All-Star starter...)
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:05 PM   #35
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

don't know if this is the right thread - but F-Jason Kidd. "We've tried to make this work"...the following things are true and all players must learn this before even entering the league:

The league is cyclical. if the team is good for a period it will have to be bad for a period. This is because of cap rules and draft rules. The Nets were good, now they have to be bad. We all saw this coming (probably not this fast).

When you sign a contract, you are obligated to play for that team. Here's a newsflash, if you sign a long-term contract, the team will probably be bad for some amount of time during that contract...due to the aforementioned cyclical nature of the sport.

No one can live their entire NBA career without sitting through some tough seasons. Its just impossible. If you only eant to win, you should only sign 1 yr deals and then only go to good teams.

To my knowledge - the Nets have bent over backwards to accomodate Kidd. They paid him well, they made him the face of the franchise, they acquired players he wanted. So, I'm sure the Nets are very sorry to J.Kidd that they aren't winning more, but maybe its the sort of thing he needs to lead them through or suffer through himself. Play his best and hope they win.

This behavior is disgusting (and I'm a Kidd fan)
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:12 PM   #36
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

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Originally Posted by Patrick27
I'm curious as to why they wouldn't. Has the AI experiment been successful? They seem about in the same place as they were without him...

I've never quite seen why people think he's an improvement, but I'd be curious to hear opinions.
Quote:
I'm curious as to why they wouldn't. Has the AI experiment been successful? They seem about in the same place as they were without him...
Without him, they were a barely .500 team. With him, they are a well-above .500 team. They're on pace to win over 50.

I don't know why people are suddenly contemplating Kidd for AI trades out of no where. The Nuggets FO hasn't even THOUGHT about trading AI. Why would they? 3rd leading scorer, is the MVP of the team thus far, they have a better record with him, he's not slowing down at all, they're in the playoffs right now. People keep saying it's time to trade him? Why? Seriously, I don't understand at all. That would be like trading Amare from the Suns right now in the position they're win - winning, a good playoff seed, having a great season? Why suddenly make a blockbuster trade? People need to realize last year is partially irrelevant. Injuries, suspensions, chemistry, AI coming part way into the season were all a factor as to why Denver only won 45 games. Some people making this all out to be a reason to trade Iverson. What has he done wrong?

As for the thread question, no, K-Mart isn't what he used to be. Kidd/K-Mart wouldn't be as successful as it was 5 years ago.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:15 PM   #37
Hstone
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

What about Kidd for melo wouldnt really make sense for either team though
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:18 PM   #38
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Starks
don't know if this is the right thread - but F-Jason Kidd. "We've tried to make this work"...the following things are true and all players must learn this before even entering the league:

The league is cyclical. if the team is good for a period it will have to be bad for a period. This is because of cap rules and draft rules. The Nets were good, now they have to be bad. We all saw this coming (probably not this fast).

When you sign a contract, you are obligated to play for that team. Here's a newsflash, if you sign a long-term contract, the team will probably be bad for some amount of time during that contract...due to the aforementioned cyclical nature of the sport.

No one can live their entire NBA career without sitting through some tough seasons. Its just impossible. If you only eant to win, you should only sign 1 yr deals and then only go to good teams.

To my knowledge - the Nets have bent over backwards to accomodate Kidd. They paid him well, they made him the face of the franchise, they acquired players he wanted. So, I'm sure the Nets are very sorry to J.Kidd that they aren't winning more, but maybe its the sort of thing he needs to lead them through or suffer through himself. Play his best and hope they win.

This behavior is disgusting (and I'm a Kidd fan)
right now a toronto fan is laughing maniacally and throwing darts at an old poster of vince carter. i do agree to the point though. if you're getting paid franchise money on a team that clearly tried to give you pieces to succeed, is it too much to ask that you at least try to live through the bumps in he road?

he should have swallowed his ego and signed with san antonio back in the day.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:19 PM   #39
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

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Originally Posted by Hstone
What about Kidd for melo wouldnt really make sense for either team though


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Old 01-29-2008, 03:34 PM   #40
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

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Originally Posted by Richie2k6
Without him, they were a barely .500 team. With him, they are a well-above .500 team. They're on pace to win over 50.

I don't know why people are suddenly contemplating Kidd for AI trades out of no where. The Nuggets FO hasn't even THOUGHT about trading AI. Why would they? 3rd leading scorer, is the MVP of the team thus far, they have a better record with him, he's not slowing down at all, they're in the playoffs right now. People keep saying it's time to trade him? Why? Seriously, I don't understand at all. That would be like trading Amare from the Suns right now in the position they're win - winning, a good playoff seed, having a great season? Why suddenly make a blockbuster trade? People need to realize last year is partially irrelevant. Injuries, suspensions, chemistry, AI coming part way into the season were all a factor as to why Denver only won 45 games. Some people making this all out to be a reason to trade Iverson. What has he done wrong?

As for the thread question, no, K-Mart isn't what he used to be. Kidd/K-Mart wouldn't be as successful as it was 5 years ago.

They're still not one of the best teams in the West though. San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, Lakers, New Orleans, and arguably Portland and Utah are better. Denver might not even make the playoffs this year, even if they do have a better record then last year, which I think they will. Im a huge AI fan, but Denver has two big weaknesses: Defense and a decent PG. Jason Kidd is a better defender then AI, and is one of the best point guards in the league. Denver already has one dominant perimeter scorer, and they don't need two, cause Jason Kidd will more then make up for AI's impact with the way he sets up his teammates.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:44 PM   #41
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

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Originally Posted by Richie2k6
Without him, they were a barely .500 team. With him, they are a well-above .500 team. They're on pace to win over 50.

I'm not an informed Denver follower, but I'll try to explain away the difference anyway. I know, probably not fair to do, but I'll try.

Anthony isn't a rookie anymore, and his maturity has shown because now he's better acclimated to the NBA style and is a leading scorer in this league. Kenyon Martin is healthy for the first time in many years, and Marcus Camby just received a DPOY. I think there's much different and improved with this team from before AI's trade.

I'm tempted to say that Melo could take AI's shots and shoot at a higher percentage, and there wouldn't be much dropoff. However, he'd then be guaranteed a double-team and having AI keeps defenses honest (I'd guess).

On paper, I'd say if Andre Miller and Joe Smith were still in Denver, there may not be a tremendous dropoff - maybe 4-5 games over the season. Just a prediction which can never be proven, but I feel the balance in rosters would work out that way.

Now we take away AI and add Kidd. He's not the scorer AI is, but he's traditionally made average teammates look good. There's long been suspicion that AI and Anthony are too similar, needing the ball to be useful on offense. They've traditionally played a more one-oon-one style, and I think Kidd could add a few games to the 50 total (assuming he gels quickly) that you predict by getting some easier, higher percentage baskets.

I think I'm not the only one that sees - on paper - that this tandem may be more successful. Not many are picking Denver to win it all this year, but I'd say Kidd gives Denver a better chance than AI does.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:51 PM   #42
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

I'd much rather see J. Kidd team up with the OTHER K-Mart in Sac. But obviously that's not gonna happen.
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:11 PM   #43
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

Awful lot of non Denver fans here commenting on a Denver related thread lol.

Denver should trade anyone for Kidd except these three: AI, Melo, Camby, but unfortunetly, who can we give to get Kidd? Nene's out, they don't want KMart, Camby's gettin old & will probably retire soon, ummm...Kleiza? Nope that wouldn't work, no way in hell would Denver even think about trading Melo, so....the only option I see is Kidd for Iverson, but seriously that would be messed up if they trade AI to the nets because he wants to be with a team that has at least a shot of making it(a very small chance).

Also K-Mart does kind of suck, they messed up big time when they signed him to that huge deal.
There's got to be another way to bring him here. :

Last edited by KRAYZIE : 01-29-2008 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:12 PM   #44
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

Well it is also a Jason Kidd thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAYZIE
Awful lot of non Denver fans here commenting on a Denver related thread lol.

Denver should trade anyone for Kidd except these three: AI, Melo, Camby, but unfortunetly, who can we give to get Kidd? Nene's out, they don't want KMart, Camby's gettin old & will probably retire soon, ummm...Kleiza? Nope that wouldn't work, no way in hell would Denver even think about trading Melo, so....the only option I see is Kidd for Iverson, but seriously that would be messed up if they trade AI to the nets because he wants to be with a team that has at least a shot of making it(a very small chance).

Also K-Mart does kind of suck, they messed up big time when they signed him to that huge deal.
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:15 PM   #45
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Default Re: Kidd + Denver: Would Martin/Kidd be good again?

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Originally Posted by KRAYZIE
Awful lot of non Denver fans here commenting on a Denver related thread lol.

That's fair. I'm one of those you mention. I'm interested in getting the Denver side of the story, because some of us non-Denver people can see Kidd > AI on paper. I'm glad to hear the other side, and even more glad to hear the Denver side. Thanks for joining the thread.
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