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Old 01-26-2013, 08:42 PM   #46
arifgokcen
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

Lebron was 6'7.75 in his rookie season barefoot.I remember an article dont ask me where.So it safe to assume he is 6'9 in shoes.NBA players heights are listed in shoes.Even the man himself said so.6'9 and 260+

Coming back to most complete player.I think he is by far the most complete player ever.Let me put it like this jordan is GOAT or magic is/maybe better or others.However we have never had somebody that can do it all on court.

Lebron literally can do anything on court.Jordan as great as he is has never defended or played 4/5.Thats what i understand when you say complete.He has to be able to play and defend and do anything on the floor.

Guys like magic who can do it all on the offensive side of the floor.
Guys like rodman who can do it all on the defensive side of the floor

But we never had the combination.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:46 PM   #47
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arifgokcen
Lebron was 6'7.75 in his rookie season barefoot.I remember an article dont ask me where.So it safe to assume he is 6'9 in shoes.NBA players heights are listed in shoes.Even the man himself said so.6'9 and 260+

Coming back to most complete player.I think he is by far the most complete player ever.Let me put it like this jordan is GOAT or magic is/maybe better or others.However we have never had somebody that can do it all on court.

Lebron literally can do anything on court.Jordan as great as he is has never defended or played 4/5.Thats what i understand when you say complete.He has to be able to play and defend and do anything on the floor.

Guys like magic who can do it all on the offensive side of the floor.
Guys like rodman who can do it all on the defensive side of the floor

But we never had the combination.
no he is not 6'9. he measured 6'7.25 at the predraft combine
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:50 PM   #48
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

KG is the only player that can literally do EVERYTHING on the court.

- Average 6 assists as a 7-footer? Check.
- Shoot over 80% from the line? Check.
- Play point guard? Check.
- Rebound and defend as good as anyone? Check.
- Great shooter? Check.
- Great post player? Check.
- etc

The only player as complete as him is Jordan. That's it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:09 PM   #49
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

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Originally Posted by red1
no he is not 6'9. he measured 6'7.25 at the predraft combine
Dude i already know that but after that in his rookie season he was measured at 6'7.75 thats why i said rookie season not predraft.Considering he was just 18 its very plausible that he grew 0.5' in 6 months.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:10 PM   #50
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young X
KG is the only player that can literally do EVERYTHING on the court.

- Average 6 assists as a 7-footer? Check.
- Shoot over 80% from the line? Check.
- Play point guard? Check.
- Rebound and defend as good as anyone? Check.
- Great shooter? Check.
- Great post player? Check.
- etc

The only player as complete as him is Jordan. That's it.

Wrong. David Robinson was a rich man's KG
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:13 PM   #51
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

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Originally Posted by 28renyoy
Wrong. David Robinson was a rich man's KG
David Robinson wasn't the shooter, passer, or ball handler that KG is.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:15 PM   #52
arifgokcen
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young X
KG is the only player that can literally do EVERYTHING on the court.

- Average 6 assists as a 7-footer? Check.
- Shoot over 80% from the line? Check.
- Play point guard? Check.
- Rebound and defend as good as anyone? Check.
- Great shooter? Check.
- Great post player? Check.
- etc

The only player as complete as him is Jordan. That's it.

Problem with that KG never played either guard positions especially he never played PG he played point forward.The problem was his handles.He had one of the best handles as true 7 footer still he didnt have the guard ability.To bring the ball up the floor slash your way into the lane create opportunities for others.

Jordan had the same problem.He is the greatest wing player and GOAT however he never played a big man game.

Lebron onthe other hand did both
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:24 PM   #53
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arifgokcen
Dude i already know that but after that in his rookie season he was measured at 6'7.75 thats why i said rookie season not predraft.Considering he was just 18 its very plausible that he grew 0.5' in 6 months.
Yeah it is possible that he grew but if I have never seen a measurement of 6'8 barefoot. He is 6'8 in shoes.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:27 PM   #54
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

I don't see how Lebron is more complete than Jordan. Bird was also more complete than Lebron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmacattack33
Nah. MJ overall wins, but we're not talking overall, we're talking about someone who is very good in all things.

MJ:

Scoring: 10
Man on man defense: 10
Overall defense: 9.5
Passing: 7.5
Rebounding:7.5

Jordan's all around defense deserves a higher rating than his man to man defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 28renyoy
Probably David Robinson TBH

Elite scorer, rebounder, defender, passer(for his position), and probably the greatest ball handler at the center position in history.

Hakeem was the more complete center, and a better ball-handler than Robinson, who you just called the greatest ball-handler at the center position.

Walton is also up there for most complete center.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:07 PM   #55
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

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Yeah, he is. As I argue in other post, he frequently plays 1-4 offensively and defensively in this year often. He does guard centers on occasion as well. Nobody has moved around as frequently as he has - except maybe KG in Minny??? Now that he is posting up he can play everywhere on the court. Now that the center position is horrible, Lebron legitimately can dominate every position. He would go around every center without problem, and he could affect the best center in the game with his defense.

To me the most versatile all over the court were Baylor, Magic, Bird, KG, Big O and Pippen. None of them could dominate at every position. Handle, Power, Speed, Skill, Touch, Coordination, Vision, Lateral movement, Quickness, Shooting, Anticipation, Judgement, etc. Yeah, not only is Lebron the most versatile but in practicality he actualizes it much more than other players ever did if you break it down to ten positions.

If you play all the positions, you complete the puzzle. If you have a guy that is among the best at each position, you complete the puzzle. The positions are the most practical way to see what you lack and where you are strongest. In college you learn all the parts of the game and how it all comes together. Its broken down by position and offense and defense. Players function at the level of a skill sets at each position. And just because MJ had the ability, doesn't mean he functioned as a complete player. He rarely moved into the other positions. Yao Ming had the ability to be a SF but he rarely functioned like that.

Lots of teams lack in a very good number of details (offensive rebounding/blocking/post play etc.) however Miami can win the championship. Because at the more practical level they succeed in some measure of dominance in position play. You can't keep them from running, you can't keep them from getting easy baskets, its hard to counter their speed, etc. At the detail level Metta steals the ball more than Lebron. At the functional level it's tragic if Lebron steals the ball and ok if Metta gets one more a game. The game functions and is strategized at the level of positional play.

Lebron plays 1-4 from game to game and he will go to the five once in awhile - last week he played 8 positions in the two games (Lakers/Utah) I saw (Lebron rarely plays the SG on offense). He is rarely outplayed at any position because he used his skillset, natural gifts, and knowlege all the time. KG is the only other player that for years played across six positions with regularity and would dip to the full ten over a ten game period. Of course Lebron and KG were among the best defenders as well.

Below are some great rounded figures.
Baylor in a less refined game would play SF, PF and SG at least offensively - had a year and a half span where he averaged 36/19/5.
Big O five years at 30/9/11. Maybe somebody can speak to their defense.

Chamberlain 24/24/8 over two full years and was arguably the best defensive player.
Wilt in piecemeal averaged 50ppg/27 rebs/ and 8.6 assist.
Jordan had that 32.5/8/8 and I'm sure he was first team all defense as well that year?

Below are the only two that I know played 9 or more positions while putting up these numbers. They also were among the best defenders in the game when they did it.
KG 23/13.4/6
Lebron 27/8/6
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:42 AM   #56
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

Agree with Pointguard. Yeh, I think he is the most complete player ever. Definitely up there with Bird and Big O IMO.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:47 AM   #57
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

Surprised it took so long for Hakeem to get mentioned. I think he belongs on those lists. At his position, one's game doesn't get much more complete than that... Similar to Jordan, he wasn't an elite passer (not that he wasn't very good when he wanted) or long range shooter but made up for it in almost every other area of the game.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:50 AM   #58
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

He's one of the most complete players in NBA history, no doubt. And that's without even having a legitimate post game. If he can add that to his arsenal over the next few years...
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #59
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBird
Agree with Pointguard. Yeh, I think he is the most complete player ever. Definitely up there with Bird and Big O IMO.

Bird I agree with, but why Oscar? He was a better passer than Lebron, but Lebron is easily the better rebounder and defender.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:45 AM   #60
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Default Re: Is LeBron the most complete player the game has ever seen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatAsh
Bird I agree with, but why Oscar? He was a better passer than Lebron, but Lebron is easily the better rebounder and defender.

Big O had the most years of applying himself at all aspects of the game. That 30/9/11 for five years - while not really caring about having an all around game, has to get you some mention.
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