Great PGs carried Dirk Nowitzkis career

[SCdac]

That's a good point. There are gonna be those who try to downplay Kidd's role in Dirk's ring, and those who still call the 2011 version him a "HOF PG". People don't realize that in most (if not all) cases, there's a middle ground.

A legitimate case can be made though that Dirk has been the best Maverick on the court during every minute he has ever played.

Idk about that one. He wasn't ROTY or anything or an AS his rookie season. Not the MVP Dirk we witnessed. I get your point though. From about 3 seasons in there's probably some truth to that, but I'd be tempted to take prime Mike Finley over rookie year-Dirk. And the "every minute" part of your comment is vague. There's a difference between performing better and being better (but that itself is murky). I know about a year or two ago Monta Ellis looked like their offensive leader at times. But Dirk is in the latter part of his career, so that's going to happen.

[ShawkFactory]

Also, why mention Williams?

Are you so impressed with Dirk's play at such on old age that you feel like they'll make it somewhere this year?

[Goofsta Knicca]

A simple country bumpkin ass fella recollects playing against a young Dirk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnjRSVSRjeE

[dhsilv]

steve nash
jason terry
jason kid
monta ellis*
deron williams

what do you guys think?

Did you just call Jason Terry a point guard....and a great one? You called Monta Ellis a great....sorry point guard? Deron Williams....is good even ok?

I think if you're drunk I want to know what you're having. If you're on drugs, I should tell my friends, you've found something special.

[feyki]

Also Devin Harris , lol .

[ScalsFan21]

Idk about that one. He wasn't ROTY or anything or an AS his rookie season. Not the MVP Dirk we witnessed. I get your point though. From about 3 seasons in there's probably some truth to that, but I'd be tempted to take prime Mike Finley over rookie year-Dirk. And the "every minute" part of your comment is vague. There's a difference between performing better and being better (but that itself is murky). I know about a year or two ago Monta Ellis looked like their offensive leader at times. But Dirk is in the latter part of his career, so that's going to happen.

I guess Shawn Bradley could be thrown into that conversation too.

By "better player" though I pretty much just meant being the guy who over long stretches would be the biggest positive impact on the court. There were definitely times when he was either hobbled by injury or deferring to an extent where he wasn't playing like the "best player on the court" but I think he was always the guy capable of the highest level of play. MAYBE even during that rookie year, though I'd agree it's highly debatable. Was probably a bad choice of words.

Still, Dirk > Rose by a Grand Canyon-sized chasm all time which I'm guessing really pisses Nathan off.

[dhsilv]

That's a good point. There are gonna be those who try to downplay Kidd's role in Dirk's ring, and those who still call the 2011 version him a "HOF PG". People don't realize that in most (if not all) cases, there's a middle ground.

A legitimate case can be made though that Dirk has been the best Maverick on the court during every minute he has ever played.

No case can be made that Dirk was better than finley in his rookie year, none zero not even up for debate.

[dhsilv]

Also Devin Harris , lol .

at least he's a point guard...

[Smoke117]

Nate continues being a retard...

[StephHamann]

steve nash
jason terry
jason kid
monta ellis*
deron williams

what do you guys think?

NIce list of players that are better than Derrick Rose

[Real Men Wear Green]

steve nash
jason terry
jason kid
monta ellis*
deron williams

what do you guys think?

I think it's incredible that anyone could think Kidd carried Nowizki.

[nathanjizzle]

All im saying is that above average to great point guards have been crucial to the mavericks success, in the years they've had success. jason terry averaged 18 points at one point, but hes supposed to be a scrub that dirk carried?

[DMAVS41]

All im saying is that above average to great point guards have been crucial to the mavericks success, in the years they've had success. jason terry averaged 18 points at one point, but hes supposed to be a scrub that dirk carried?

Jason Terry was a sg...that happened to be a good pick and roll player because of his elite jump shooting.

Nash was elite...at least by the 01 season. From 01 to 04...the Mavs had the following offenses in the league:

4th
1st
1st
1st

Jason Kidd was a good, but not great player by the time he joined the Mavs. He actually was old and slow, but also happened to be still very good. Especially in terms of managing the games and defending...two key aspects to winning.

Ellis was good, but not elite...same thing with Deron.

Carried Dirk's career? Certainly pg play next to Dirk is very important. He opens up the game so much and a good pg/guard is very important to getting the most out of the offense in terms of the pick and pop and rim runs from a center.

None of the guys you listed are scrubs, but none of them, outside of Nash...should be considered a "great player" during the time they spent in Dallas.

Dirk just never had great help outside a couple years of his career. I know that reality really hurts your agenda, but it's the truth. Dirk just never got carried like other players with great help did.

Mavs without Dirk for his career? -3.2 points per 100 possessions

Bulls without Rose for his career? +3.5 points per 100 possession

That elite help for Rose....some of the best help any star player has had in terms of on/off rating....which I know you love.

Must really suck to be so beaten down that you have to resort to making random Dirk threads.

[nathanjizzle]

Mavs without Dirk for his career? -3.2 points per 100 possessions

Bulls without Rose for his career? +3.5 points per 100 possession

That elite help for Rose....some of the best help any star player has had in terms of on/off rating....which I know you love.

elite help so you go from saying the east is completely garbage in those seasons, but if said team without rose goes .50 for the season in the garbage east, they are elite help? that contradiction. Look, carlos boozer was the best help rose had in 2010-11-12. HAHA. and forget your donkey stats, on and off? how about rose going 30-10 in clutch games, was he supposedly off the court in those last 5 minutes.? HAHA IDIOT.

a dirk led team cannot be successful without a good/great PG. give him your run of the mill pg and his team is mediocre. most likely missing the playoffs too.

[DMAVS41]

elite help so you go from saying the east is completely garbage in those seasons, but if said team without rose goes goes .50 for the season in the garbage east, they are elite help? that contradiction.

Any help that can have that good of a differential without their star in the regular season for a career is elite level bench help.

Has nothing to do with East or West....

There is no other way around it...for winning in the regular season, not necessarily the playoffs, Rose has had elite help overall in his career.