Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

[RedBlackAttack]

I call Kobe the best because of his defense...offensively they were very similiar those two years, LeBron isn't now and never was the defensive player that Kobe is though. Which is why outside of this season, Kobe I believe was the better all around player. This year LeBron's dominant offensive numbers more then make up for Kobe's defensive prowess.

Also, LeBron's defense has improved VASTLY over the last couple of seasons.

But, doesn't LeBron's superior rebounding (offensive and DEFENSIVE rebounding) factor in? Even in 2006? This isn't just about scoring, assisting and defense. There are other factors, as well.

Plus, the Cavs won 50 in 2006 while, I believe, the Lakers won 42.

I'm just saying...

[-Ev08-]

LeBron plays a different position and has 3 inches on Kobe, he should contribute more on the glass. LeBron has improved vastly on the defensive end this season but it's down right laughable if you think he was anywhere near Kobe's level on a consistent basis the last two years. Even when Kobe gambled too much and didn't show consistency effort wise, he was twice as effective defensively as LeBron.

LeBron won 50 games with a stronger supporting cast, should I give you a brief lesson on how injury riddled LA was last few years and our starters were Walton, Kwame and Smush. 50 wins in the east isn't that much more impressive then 42 wins out west giving what Kobe had to work with.

[RedBlackAttack]

LeBron plays a different position and has 3 inches on Kobe, he should contribute more on the glass. LeBron has improved vastly on the defensive end this season but it's down right laughable if you think he was anywhere near Kobe's level on a consistent basis the last two years. Even when Kobe gambled too much and didn't show consistency effort wise, he was twice as effective defensively as LeBron.

LeBron won 50 games with a stronger supporting cast, should I give you a brief lesson on how injury riddled LA was last few years and our starters were Walton, Kwame and Smush. 50 wins in the east isn't that much more impressive then 42 wins out west giving what Kobe had to work with.

'Significantly stronger cast'? The Cavs' starting PG was Eric Snow. Let's not act as though LeBron was playing with the Showtime Lakers, here. His supporting cast was pretty damn weak, in fact.

Also, just because LeBron is taller, stronger and can jump higher than Kobe doesn't mean that his superior rebounding should be dismissed. Rebounding is an important part of the game and the Cavs have been the best rebounding team in the NBA over the last few years... much of that has to do with LeBron averaging 7-8+ rpg at small forward (way above average for the position).

EDIT: Actually, I just checked the statistics... LeBron averages more rebounds per game than any small forward in the NBA this season.

Third, your argument that LeBron's team getting 50 wins was due to him having a better supporting cast... wouldn't that also bolster LeBron's argument this year, since the Cavs have a significantly worse supporting cast around LeBron than what Kobe has right now?

It seems you are being inconsistent.

[Brunch@Five]

Third, your argument that LeBron's team getting 50 wins was due to him having a better supporting cast... wouldn't that also bolster LeBron's argument this year, since the Cavs have a significantly worse supporting cast around LeBron than what Kobe has right now?

It seems you are being inconsistent.

evo's pick for MVP is Bron this year. Nothing inconsistent about it :)

Bron needs to get some big wins to get the MVP. I don't consider 50 the magic number, but if he gets 48 with a few wins against big teams it should improve his chances.

[RedBlackAttack]

evo's pick for MVP is Bron this year. Nothing inconsistent about it :)

Bron needs to get some big wins to get the MVP. I don't consider 50 the magic number, but if he gets 48 with a few wins against big teams it should improve his chances.

In the past three games, the Cavs have beaten the Pistons and Raptors... one team with a top 2 record in the NBA and the other a top 5 team in the conference.

The Cavs have wins in San Antonio, in Dallas, in LA, in Portland, in Boston against Utah, Golden State... The Cavs have beaten LA twice and Boston twice (the leaders of each of the conferences).

What 'big wins' are you looking for?

[-Ev08-]

What the hell are even talking about? They play different positions don't try to tell me that LeBron made up for his lack of defense the past two years by outrebounding Kobe, when the guy is TALLER by 3 inches. You might as well say Dirk Nowitzki is better then Kobe because he plays no defense but makes up for it on the glass.

Kobe is one of the top rebounding SG's as well, I'm quite aware that LeBron is a better rebounder and playmaker despite his size advantage...I'm also quite aware that Kobe is a better defender and more rounded scorer...this season LeBron's defense has improved visibly, and I concur that he's the best player in the game because of that improvement...and because of his other outstanding numbers. I think that's whats so nauseating about groupies like you, they always want more praises toward their favorite player. There are Kobe groupies too, and Jordan groupies...but you clearly fit that discription. Kobe was a more rounded basketball player the last two years, everyone including LeBron's mom knows that...this season LeBron has the crown, learn to deal with it.

And I ain't even going to start with the whole supporting cast, you seem like a prototypical LeBron nut rider so I'll stop this conversation right here. By the way, I'm pretty sure guys like Gooden and Hughes are starters on another team (outside of Cleveland), can't say the same for Smush Parker and Kwame Brown.

Oh, I'd take a defensive minded Eric Snow over Smush every single time...and so would you.

[RedBlackAttack]

What the hell are even talking about? They play different positions don't try to tell me that LeBron made up for his lack of defense the past two years by outrebounding Kobe, when the guy is TALLER by 3 inches. You might as well say Dirk Nowitzki is better then Kobe because he plays no defense but makes up for it on the glass.

Kobe is one of the top rebounding SG's as well, I'm quite aware that LeBron is a better rebounder and playmaker despite his size advantage...I'm also quite aware that Kobe is a better defender and more rounded scorer...this season LeBron's defense has improved visibly, and I concur that he's the best player in the game because of that improvement...and because of his other outstanding numbers. I think that's what nauseating about groupies like you, they always want more. There are Kobe groupies too, and Jordan groupies...but you clearly fit that discription. Kobe was a more rounded basketball player, everyone including LeBron's mom knows that...this season LeBron has the crown, learn to deal with it.

And I ain't even going to start with the whole supporting cast, you seem like a prototypical LeBron nut rider so I'll stop this conversation right here. By the way, I'm pretty sure guys like Gooden and Hughes are starters on another team (outside of Cleveland), can't say the same for Smush Parker and Kwame Brown.

Oh, I'd take a defensive minded Eric Snow over Smush every single time...and so would you.

You are in no position to make presumptions about me as a poster or fan. I'm such a 'groupie' that I regularly criticize LeBron's performances (includes tonight's game and most others). In fact, I was very outspoken during LeBron's last 40 point game (I believe he also had 10 assists) in how I thought it was a below average performance, despite the numbers.

I call LeBron out almost as much as any 'hater' on this board.

Is that your prototypical nut rider? Maybe you should hang out a little longer than a couple of weeks before you make judgments on just who is a 'nut rider' and who isn't.

I am a Cavalier fan. I live just outside of Cleveland. I was a fan of this team long before LeBron came and I will be one long after he is out of the NBA.

If you believe that LeBron is deserving of the MVP this year and Kobe was deserving in past years, I have no problem with that stance. If you believe that Kobe is deserving this year and Dirk and Nash were deserving the last 3, I have no problem with you.

I did not see you say that you thought LeBron deserved it this season, though, so I pointed out hypocrisy that I have seen out of a lot of people this year (complained incessantly about the 'best player on best team' criteria until this season, when it suited their favorite player).

Before you label a poster, though, you should have a little more background than plain assumptions based on a few posts.

Unless you were posting by a different username before, you know nothing of me and, if you were posting before, you should know that I criticize LeBron when it is deserved and praise him and the team when I see fit.

There is no 'nut riding,' here.

[-Ev08-]

Third, your argument that LeBron's team getting 50 wins was due to him having a better supporting cast... wouldn't that also bolster LeBron's argument this year, since the Cavs have a significantly worse supporting cast around LeBron than what Kobe has right now?

I've already stated LeBron is the best player this season, how am I being inconsistant again? Oh wait because I didn't give you the satisfication of claiming LeBron is bigger then american steel?

Fact is Kobe didn't have the luxury of having all that talent all year long, he is playing through an injury (MVP creditential right there), playing DPOY type defense, putting up great numbers, just now led his team past two of the toughest home teams in the league, reclaimed the #1 seed without Gasol/Bynum in the lineup...not having Bynum for over a quarter of the season, not having Gasol for half a season...still leading his team to the #1 seed currently in the toughest conference race I have ever seen. Sure as hell more impressive then winning 50 games in the east, yeah of course he has more talent then LeBron did...but then again, I don't recall Jordan winning accolades while racking up stats, he started winning them when his team was doing things that counted. Bron will get his shot, don't worry about that.

[RedBlackAttack]

I've already stated LeBron is the best player this season, how am I being inconsistant again?

Read my above post for your answer.

[-Ev08-]

My previous post was a simple attempt at shinning some light on why Kobe is an MVP candidate, I believe LeBron and Paul are just as worthy as Kobe.

Only thing is, Kobe this season led a team that's a title contender something LeBron never had the previledge of doing...that's how MVP's are usually rewarded...that's why Jordan never won MVP awards when he was putting up LeBron type numbers...because to win the award, you usually have to play for a team that gets a lot of attention. Just how it works.

If all that didn't matter, no one but LeBron wins the MVP award this season...and the same goes for Kobe last two years (you can make a case for LeBron too, like you mentioned).

[Brunch@Five]

In the past three games, the Cavs have beaten the Pistons and Raptors... one team with a top 2 record in the NBA and the other a top 5 team in the conference.

The Cavs have wins in San Antonio, in Dallas, in LA, in Portland, in Boston against Utah, Golden State... The Cavs have beaten LA twice and Boston twice (the leaders of each of the conferences).

What 'big wins' are you looking for?

Big wins in their next 13 games.

They still play the Hornets, Pistons 2x, Orlando and Philly 2x (both Conference rivals). If he gets at least 4 wins out of those 6 games that would be huge.

He simply cannot continue to play .500 ball in the remaining games.

[RedBlackAttack]

Big wins in their next 13 games.

They still play the Hornets, Pistons 2x, Orlando and Philly 2x (both Conference rivals). If he gets at least 4 wins out of those 6 games that would be huge.

He simply cannot continue to play .500 ball in the remaining games.

Agreed.

[konex]

Plus, the Cavs won 50 in 2006 while, I believe, the Lakers won 42.

45 actually. That's ~= 50 in the EC..

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Unless Lebron has a MONSTER finale to the season, he does not deserve the MVP. It goes to either CP3 or Kobe. I think this should be obvious now.

[AKADS]

I believe Kobe will win the MVP this year and he does desirve it. LeBron seems to always be top 3 but I want to see him do what Kobe has found a way to do this year and take his team to the top of the conference. Plus the fact Kobe doesn't have a MVP yet is only goin to fuel voters to give it to him he did what everyone said he would have to if he was goin to win a MVP. He has his teammates involved but takes over when its needed. Still playing excellent D and his passing is back to where it was when Shaq was around. I still think LeBron will end up with a better career in the long run but this is Kobes time.