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Old 08-26-2007, 10:09 AM   #1
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Default Offensive/Defensive Composite Scores

82games has combined stats to come up with a net score for NBA players on both offense and defense. Offensive rankings have always been more easily established, but there never has been very good ways to determine defensive rankings.

These might help when trying to determine who would be good players to go after in trade/FA.

Offensive Composite Score

Offensive ratings are an incredible measure of efficiency. PER also measures efficiency but takes into account players with higher usage rates. +/- is a great indicator of how well a player is fitting into his team and helping them offensively.

The scores work the same as with DCS, and the average is set at 0.

-40 and below: Terrible
-40 to -20: Very bad
-20 to 0: Below average
0 to 20: Above average
20 to 40: Very good
40+: Elite

anderson,derek cha SG/SF 116 14.8 6.4 31.4 49 85.4%
carroll,matt cha SG/SF 114 15.8 5.4 28.3 57 82.9%
okafor,emeka cha C 111 21.6 -0.9 25.0 67 79.9%
wallace,gerald cha SG/SF 110 21.4 -1.0 21.8 76 77.1%
may,sean cha PF 109 20.7 5.0 20.4 79 76.2%
herrmann,walter cha PF 117 17.5 1.6 15.5 105 68.3%
felton,raymond cha PG 98 14.7 4.4 6.6 138 58.2%
knight,brevin cha PG 103 15.4 -1.4 -3.3 179 45.7%
brezec,primoz cha C 98 10.5 -1.8 -16.4 227 31.1%
voskuhl,jake cha C 103 11.9 1.7 -21.3 246 25.3%
mcinnis,jeff cha PG 93 8.5 -1.8 -47.5 314 4.6%
morrison,adam cha SG/SF 91 8.7 -4.6 -51.4 317 3.7%

Defensive Composite Score

The new average for DCS is 0. Positive scores denote good defenders and negative scores mean bad defenders.

Scores of 40+: Excellent defender
20 to 40: Very good defender
0 to 20: Above average
-20 to 0: Below average
-40 to -20: Poor defender
-40 and below: Terrible defender

okafor,emeka cha C -5.8 102 16.7 32.8 31 90.9%
felton,raymond cha PG -1.2 109 14.7 18.3 68 79.6%
wallace,gerald cha SG/SF +1.1 104 15.7 13.5 83 75.1%
anderson,derek cha SG/SF -0.5 109 15.2 5.9 130 60.8%
knight,brevin cha PG -3.0 108 17.9 5.7 131 60.5%
herrmann,walter cha PF -2.3 110 14.9 0.6 153 53.8%
may,sean cha PF +0.3 106 17.6 -7.9 199 39.8%
carroll,matt cha SG/SF +4.1 110 15.6 -12.1 225 31.9%
morrison,adam cha SG/SF +2.0 112 17.0 -27.4 295 10.6%
mcinnis,jeff cha PG +2.7 112 16.4 -29.9 303 8.2%
brezec,primoz cha C +3.1 109 24.2 -33.8 311 5.8%
voskuhl,jake cha C +4.4 106 22.4 -46.5 320 3.0%

Stray thoughts: Felton is as good a defender as I've always thought and is ranked much higher than his two draft mates ( Chris Paul is -1.3 and Deron Williams is -10.2). Hammer's OCS says he deserves that slightly overpaid contract...obviously we didn't re-sign him for his defensive prowess!

Notice who's top 4 in both stats (hint...he's still a FA). Touche' sucks. Ammo has a long way to go. These numbers might be a hint on why we didn't want Jake back.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: Offensive/Defensive Composite Scores

I would have to argue with GDub's defensive rating however....
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:57 AM   #3
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Default Re: Offensive/Defensive Composite Scores

You cant really give a stat to defense if you ask me. Thats why it is so hard to do it. It's not all about steals and blocks and opponents FG%.
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:14 AM   #4
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Default Re: Offensive/Defensive Composite Scores

Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelBorn
You cant really give a stat to defense if you ask me. Thats why it is so hard to do it. It's not all about steals and blocks and opponents FG%.


I would not rate Felton above Wallace defensively by ny means, but if you look at it overall. The top 5 guys in the defensive rankings are all at least competent defenders, and the 5 lowest are all pretty bad defenders, so it makes some sense.
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:18 AM   #5
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Default Re: Offensive/Defensive Composite Scores

Agreed that it's very hard to get stats to gauge defense. As we all know Felton has had to guard the opponent's SG a LOT, so one could say his would be somewhat skewed to the negative, yet his is still pretty good. IMO this says something to how good he really is on man D.

This one does seem to get decent props from around the different boards though...and the top 10 falls about where you'd expect.

TOP 10 OVERALL
PLAYER DCS
Tim Duncan 65.6
Bruce Bowen 61.5
Manu Ginobili 60.4
Joel Przybilla 55.6
Devin Harris 54.0
Kevin Garnett 52.2
Yao Ming 50.1
Tony Parker 47.5
Tyrus Thomas 47.4
Luol Deng 45.9

All those seem like they should be there. The DPOY is missing however (Camby = 28). Maybe perceptions and the sexy stuff like blocks influence that too much?

Crash isn't the best man defender. He's awesome with help D in the paint as well as "cheating" off his man for steals in the perimeter, but so far as just sticking with his guy outside and going up tight on a jumpshot? Nah. I've seen him not even go up with the jump shooter too many times, just sticking that hand out while turned and looking at the basket. He CAN be a great man defender when he's motivated...he won a Toronto game 2 seasons back with his fantastic defense against Mo Pete & Mike James in the closing minutes, but that's the norm.

I think he'll improve over time, getting more crafty. Of course if he improves there as well as continuing to better his outside J he'll be worth 20 million per.
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Old 08-27-2007, 07:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: Offensive/Defensive Composite Scores

All-NBA Defensive Teams
1st Team: Duncan (#1), Bowen (#2), Camby, Kobe, R. Bell
2nd Team: B. Wallace, Hinrich, Kidd, Prince, KG (#6)

So out of the 10 best defenders last year according to "the voters", only 3 are on that list. If you look at the "others receiving votes" for the all-defensive team, you have to get to the 7th guy/17th overall (Devin Harris) to find another name from that list.

And for this boards sake, I should mention that Crash was 15th in the voting with 2 votes for 1st team and 11 total votes.

Source: http://www.nba.com/news/alldefensive_070430.html

PS-
This is also why I believe Kobe is far and away the best player in the NBA (world). I mean, did anyone else see what he did to Barbosa last night in the USA vs Brazil game?
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: Offensive/Defensive Composite Scores

not to mention deshawn stevenson and shawn marion are not in the top 10 either. The only guy I've ever seen Marion have trouble with was Arenas.... and well who didn't?
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Old 08-27-2007, 11:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Offensive/Defensive Composite Scores

Who votes for the all defensive team? The same guys who didn't invite Felton to the Rookie/Sophomore game? The same group who didn't put Crash on even the 2nd team year before last when he averaged 2 steals and 2 blocks per game...one of only THREE NBA players to ever accomplish that? Why in the heck was this guy not named DPOY in 05/06???

GM Survey: 2005-06 Defensive Player of the Year

According to a GM survey Crash got one freaking vote.

As stated before defense is very difficult to put into a stat, and no one is saying this is the final word on any player's defensive prowess. I think this does do a good job of looking at OVERALL defensive prowess. I'm not a "stats" guy by any means (mainly posted it just to generate discussion) but maybe Kobe, Bell, etc. scored so low in this metric because they're great in man D but not so much in blocks? Steals? They're playing the opponent's best player? Camby defends the paint well but how is he when an opponent like say Okur bombs from outside?

Agreed on Kobe. The dude has a work ethic second to only Michael Jordan. One of very few to actually deserve a max contract.
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Old 08-28-2007, 12:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: Offensive/Defensive Composite Scores

Camby is a freak.... I've seen him standing on the 3 point line and close out and block someone's layup from behind and vice versa. Camby is not just a long lanky shot blocker.... he is a DEFENDER.
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