Democrats, do you believe Mexicans should be treated like humans?

[Myth]

OP is missing the point on allowing immigrants rights. If they are allowed in, then they can apply for regular jobs and be taxed like everybody else. The reason they take jobs below minimum wage now is because their options are limited since they have no leverage to get higher paying jobs.

[tomtucker]

why can

[iamgine]

You're still being silly homie. You need to clarify what you meant by that statement. I have a hard time believing you think that the work/risk that drug dealers undertake is not worth $8p/h.

Are you saying they don't deserve it the same way that "Wall st ceo's don't deserve their bonuses"?

Criminal activities.

[Myth]

[QUOTE=tomtucker]why can

[Patrick Chewing]

Just by glancing at your post I can tell that it is ignorant and not worth reading but i'll say this. I voted for Obama, registered democrat, and consider myself to be liberal, and yes, I do believe Mexicans should be treated like humans. I believe that there is a serious immigration problem in this country, but using that to promote racism and segregation is not American in any sense. Obviously there are serious problems in Mexico and these people come here to live a much better life, but we simply cannot take anyone who wants to come here. We need to stop illegal immigration and remove people who came to this country and became criminals or do not contribute, but those who legally naturalize themselves (through birth, living for X years and working, family, etc) are now Americans and should be treated as such. Just like you and me. This country is not yours or mine, it belongs to every American, regardless of race. It is OUR country.

Agree totally, but as a Liberal and a Democrat yourself, you have to be disappointed in this administration. Everything you mentioned is being echoed by Republicans at this juncture and in the grand scheme of things, ignoring the issue is what may cost Democrats the election come next year. The biggest sign of where this country is headed will be determined by next year's mid-term elections and illegal immigration will be a focal point. Notice how the economy is slowly getting better? It had to. There was no way it could get any worse and it would have risen regardless of who was in office, thus the media outlets don't cover it as much as they used to.

My prediction? This will be a rough last couple of years for this administration as approval levels will be lower by the end of this administration than the previous administration at the same point.

[HarryCallahan]

Criminal activities.

What about them? That doesn't clarify a damn thing man. Put your big boy pants on and construct a full sentence homie.

[iamgine]

What about them? That doesn't clarify a damn thing man. Put your big boy pants on and construct a full sentence homie.

not to you maybe

[HarryCallahan]

not to you maybe

This ain't twitter homie. You can use more than 120 characters. You're not funny nor smart.

When I post:

You're still being silly homie. You need to clarify what you meant by that statement. I have a hard time believing you think that the work/risk that drug dealers undertake is not worth $8p/h.

Are you saying they don't deserve it the same way that "Wall st ceo's don't deserve their bonuses"?

And you say:

Criminal activities.

That doesn't make any sense.

Inb4 "Not to you"

Stop shying away from intellectual conversation.

[iamgine]

This ain't twitter homie. You can use more than 120 characters. You're not funny nor smart.

When I post:



And you say:


That doesn't make any sense.

Inb4 "Not to you"

Stop shying away from intellectual conversation.

not to you maybe

[HarryCallahan]

not to you maybe

No, not to the English language.

That's like me asking: "What's your favourite number?"
And you saying: "Criminal activities."

Bad troll attempt, 1/10

[iamgine]

No, not to the English language.

That's like me asking: "What's your favourite number?"
And you saying: "Criminal activities."

Bad troll attempt, 1/10

you have bad comprehension maybe

[Jailblazers7]

Back this up.

Find a specific example of something I said that you think was incorrect, deceptive, misrepresentative, and explain what makes you think that.

I'll wait.

So far everyone else in the thread at least gave an opinion related or semi-related to the topic. If you're gonna complain about political discussion, at least put your money where your mouth is and back up the opinion you just gave.

This is a silly jump that leaves out a very important point:

So, when you think about it, Democrats basically see Mexicans as slaves. They want them here working the jobs nobody else wants, and for well below minimum wage.

Normally, Democrats bring up the whole "they work shitty jobs that nobody wants argument" in order to provide a defense for not removing them from the country. It is a defense of their existence in this country rather than a statement about their right to a livable wage.

Many would still make less than minimum wage when accepting under-the-table cash payments based on the difficulty of finding employment but people other than Mexicans do that every day.

The real crux of the argument is turning current illegal immigrants into citizens which would end the under minimum wage payments. The entire thread is about immigration but citizenship doesn't appear one time in the OP. From what I understand of the Democratic position, the party wants a more simplistic road to citizenship in order to bring immigrants above board instead of under the table working in a shadow economy. Once citizenship occurs immigrants have a much wider set of options to choose from when looking for employment which will allow them to get jobs that will earn min wage and make them pay taxes.

This thread makes a weak connection between two arguments to form a stawman and then runs with it. You leave out the issue that connects minimum wage and Mexican workers.

You know what the crux of my point is, and how it clearly illustrates a hypocrisy. Saying you won't answer me because you don't like my tone and my rhetoric just looks like a cop out. People like you and jailblazer, based on what I can tell from your responses here, probably would support higher minimum wage, as well as illegal immigrant labor in separate discussions. And then when someone puts them side by side and illustrates the contradiction and asks what you think, you say "i dont wanna talk about it anymore"

Just because I didn't like the way you framed the OP you put words in my mouth and assign me two viewpoints that fit right back into the OP. Not a hallmark of good discussion. The problem is that, when you put them side by side, you ignore a pretty important part of the immigration discussion which is the topic of actual immigration policy. Kind of important.

[Kblaze8855]

You know what the crux of my point is, and how it clearly illustrates a hypocrisy. Saying you won't answer me because you don't like my tone and my rhetoric just looks like a cop out.

I didnt wantto answer you because as I said...you boiled down a massive multi point argument of the last 50 years into "____ think mexicans shouldnt be paid like humans" which...just doesnt seem like someone who wants to be in a fair conversation.

People like you and jailblazer, based on what I can tell from your responses here, probably would support higher minimum wage, as well as illegal immigrant labor in separate discussions. And then when someone puts them side by side and illustrates the contradiction and asks what you think, you say "i dont wanna talk about it anymore"

There is no contradiction. Higher minimum wage would be nice. It wouldnt impact me....but ive had those jobs before. I got by then because I have discipline, no vices, and dont need much. But I do find it odd how many big companies use the "We love our employees!" line then pay guys sweating buckets to generate millions the least the law allows.

Far as mexicans....its no different than anyone else working off the books. Which ive also done. Get paid a flat rate for the day. May be 40 or 50 bucks. I mixed concrete in north carolina for 100 dollars a WEEK....I was 12....so it was illegal, under minimum wage(even for then), and I paid no taxes. So it was totally out of line...law wise. But I chose to do it. And I made more money than I could have otherwise.

Same can be said of many laborers no matter legal or not. Blacks, whites, hispanics, and anyone else work those no paperwork jobs. Its damn near as illegal no matter who works it. Its no papertrail, nothing paid into SS or taxes, and no way to track who does what or who is qualified or how safe or anything.

Its illegal no matter who does it. Its just a matter of how many laws are broken.

But ive done the work and feel mexicans and anyone else should have the same right.

You should be able to do any work someone offers you if the money is ok by you. That doesnt mean the entire concept of minimum wage is wrong.....that means a man has the right to feed his children by any means he sees fit long as hes not hurting people.

Minimum wage is there to keep companies driving down the pay rate making it harder on people who have it hard enough. It never has and never will stop guys from paying a kid 10 bucks to mow a lawn that takes 2 hours or giving a guy 50 bucks to work a day.

And it shouldnt.

It couldnt if you tried.

The government has no way to police "Hey kid..paint my fence for 20 bucks?". Just trying to get the manpower and logistics would cost more than taxing the work would return.

They can however...tell a company that opens its books up that it must pay its people decently.

Its impractical to even attempt to find all work being done and police it.

And its wrong to tell the people doing that work...which is all you allow them to do....not to do it.

They have to live outside the law more and more. Im sure many would work for Verizon and pay taxes if they were allowed.

They arent. So they feed their children by any means.

I respect it. Im in favor of people being able to get real jobs without a green card/work visa if they do it better than the next guy.

I dont feel some right to live a better life than the next man because of what side of an imaginary line I was born on.

We are all equals. Mexican guy has asm uch right to get his baby girl birthday presents as I do. And if he has to pick peaches to do it....I hope there are plenty to pick.

Id pick them too if I couldnt get my kids the Wii-U they want after getting good grades.

Hes brown. Im browner. You may be tanned pink. We are all just citizens of earth to me.

He doesnt hurt me...or my family...he can earn money how he pleases.

If the government wont let him get a job they can control wages for...he will work for what he can get.

And id do the same thing in his place.

We are all just trying to eat. And this country throws away enough every year to feed every person who dies of hunger in the world.

We can spare it.

My support for illegals staying has nothing to do with them helping our economy by doing work for less. It has everything to do with me not feeling a right to send a man working for his family back to a place he feels less capable of giving them a good life. The imaginary line means next to nothing to me. If not for maniacs trying to get here and blow shit up I wouldnt care if borders even existed.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Just by glancing at your post I can tell that it is ignorant and not worth reading but i'll say this. I voted for Obama, registered democrat, and consider myself to be liberal, and yes, I do believe Mexicans should be treated like humans. I believe that there is a serious immigration problem in this country, but using that to promote racism and segregation is not American in any sense. Obviously there are serious problems in Mexico and these people come here to live a much better life, but we simply cannot take anyone who wants to come here. We need to stop illegal immigration and remove people who came to this country and became criminals or do not contribute, but those who legally naturalize themselves (through birth, living for X years and working, family, etc) are now Americans and should be treated as such. Just like you and me. This country is not yours or mine, it belongs to every American, regardless of race. It is OUR country.

I don't think this is a democrat or republican issue either, I just think you're a racist. Illegal immigration is an issue no doubt, but if Canadians were doing it you wouldn't still be able to state that you think Mexicans are subhuman without blatantly appearing racist. Even though you already do. I'm white btw

^ This person here thinks American, Mexican, and Canadian are races.

This is the sort of basic, fundamental ignorance that prevents intelligent people from having an intelligent discussion. Fools like MetsPackers cannot understand fairly simple logical exercises, and thus has to resort to non-applicable racial propaganda and intimidation through buzz words.

This is one of the reasons I framed my post the way I did. Sure, I could have a dry, safe, ben-stein-esque post about immigration. But then idiots like MetsPackers wouldn't be exposed. Look how many posters in general immediately attacked 'how' I was saying it, rather than having a substantial refutation for 'what' I was saying. It's always the idiots that play the PC card when they don't have a good argument. What does a person's view on race even have to do with the subject? If their arguments are flawed, pick them apart. If they're not, recognize and realize you little f[COLOR="Black"]ag[/COLOR]got. Saying "nahh uhh, racist racist! this guys just being racist!!!!" basically makes you look like a child who can't actually understand the conversation, and has just wet his diapers.

MetsPackers, I'm sorry you wet your diapers making me out to be a racist in a post that is clearly about nations, borders, labor, wages, and economics, none of which fall under any definition of the term 'race'. One day when you grow up, you'll be able to read and comprehend, and won't need diaper changes so often. Until then, stay away from things like cranberry juice and refried beans.

[IamRAMBO24]

If their arguments are flawed, pick them apart.

Why won't you answer me then?