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Old 12-11-2017, 02:54 PM   #226
Kblaze8855
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Default Re: Manu Ginobili is the 3rd greatest SG in NBA History

I am well aware of Otto Porter I assure you. As Iíve told you Iíve always watched the wizards and Iíve paid more attention to him than I normally would after discussing him for what felt like a month.

My opinion remains the same. Heís a very good player. Awesome? That just gets into the murky area where we try to put a specific level on abstract terms.

Heís good. He is not a great player. So I split the difference and call him very good. Like Mike Miller in his day. Very good. Iíd take him on the Bulls but we would just win 26 games instead of 19.

Heís in need of a bit more time before the tale is told. He could still be an all star. Or he could be a career role player. We will find out.
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Old 12-11-2017, 02:58 PM   #227
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Default Re: Manu Ginobili is the 3rd greatest SG in NBA History

Ginobili would break into a million pieces if he had to be a high usage franchise carrier. He's only had one season where he averaged over 30 minutes a game, and yet he's still be a brittle player.

You can't be a top 5 player at your position, when you have a third option durability.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:18 PM   #228
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Default Re: Manu Ginobili is the 3rd greatest SG in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I am well aware of Otto Porter I assure you. As Iíve told you Iíve always watched the wizards and Iíve paid more attention to him than I normally would after discussing him for what felt like a month.

My opinion remains the same. Heís a very good player. Awesome? That just gets into the murky area where we try to put a specific level on abstract terms.

Heís good. He is not a great player. So I split the difference and call him very good. Like Mike Miller in his day. Very good. Iíd take him on the Bulls but we would just win 26 games instead of 19.

Heís in need of a bit more time before the tale is told. He could still be an all star. Or he could be a career role player. We will find out.

I said he's been awesome so far this year, but I'd rather not debate semantics.

He's "very good" is fine with me.

Better than Mike Miller ever was though.

But again though, that isn't what the debate was about. The debate was about signing him to that contract. You seem to want it to be about something it wasn't...and you really never gave your answer as to what you would have even done...other than not sign Porter unless your star tells you he wants him back...but then you sound like not too high on Wall.

See why it gets confusing? Your issue seems to be with Wall...and again, I'm usually not against tanking, but ugh...trading Wall, Beal, Gortat, Morris...and letting Porter walk (which is what they would have had to do)...man, that is a tough thing to pull the trigger on.

Either way though...signing Porter doesn't hurt you...which still seems to escape you.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:41 PM   #229
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Default Re: Manu Ginobili is the 3rd greatest SG in NBA History

Its hard to assess Gin. His few minutes over the course of the year, and him coming off the bench makes him different, nevermind SA could win consistently even without Duncan, the greatest PF ever as their main guy. Gin was for the most part their third best player and not their second best player. His best year primary stat wise would be a horrible year in the prime for Wade, Iverson, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Gervin, Drexler, Carter and Mitch Richmond. The same could be said for the playoffs which is his strong suite. He has no case whatsoever over Wade.

These guys also carried their teams at some point which Gin I don't think has an argument that he could do, because he never accumulated enough minutes in any season to do so. I don't think these talented players play worse with a lot of structure and a coach that gets the most out of his players. Harden is a better, more prolific scorer, and will likely double up Gin's assist and rebounding numbers. True he needs the playoff performances but he is better than Gin at most things/skills, nevermind endurance.
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:29 PM   #230
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Default Re: Manu Ginobili is the 3rd greatest SG in NBA History

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I said he's been awesome so far this year, but I'd rather not debate semantics.

He's "very good" is fine with me.

Better than Mike Miller ever was though.

But again though, that isn't what the debate was about. The debate was about signing him to that contract. You seem to want it to be about something it wasn't...and you really never gave your answer as to what you would have even done...other than not sign Porter unless your star tells you he wants him back...but then you sound like not too high on Wall.

See why it gets confusing? Your issue seems to be with Wall...and again, I'm usually not against tanking, but ugh...trading Wall, Beal, Gortat, Morris...and letting Porter walk (which is what they would have had to do)...man, that is a tough thing to pull the trigger on.

Either way though...signing Porter doesn't hurt you...which still seems to escape you.

They wouldn’t have “had” to do anything beyond not sign him and continue playing basketball. You always overcomplicate these things with five or six eventualities that come from nothing but your imagination and expect people to respond to them like your assumptions are facts.

Even if Wall chose to leave which is certainly an assumption and not a fact everything past not signing Porter is you making up moves and just calling them required.


Nothing about letting Otto walk means you have to trade Beal. He’s the same age as otto and he’s already arrived. You have to pay 85ish million at the salary floor anyway. Might as well let him help you get there and see if he goes full superstar. What’s he gonna do? Walk? He’s signed for 4-5 years.

You don’t need to keep 2 guys at max pay who aren’t currently the guy. As a rule....guideline maybe....one max deal to a star....one more if the other guy might become a real star as well. 3? To lose anyway? I get shaky. Doesn’t mean I gotta jettison the five or six guys you mention.

They are at 85 million next year without Porter and Wall. That’s before they pay Kelly. That’s just for a 6 man roster. If they wanted to tank they could easily do it and keep Beal and monster cap space. Otto alone takes them from the floor past the cap without even finding their other 9 players.

As they are they could easily surpass the Cavs and Warriors as the most expensive team in history next season....and it seems less than likely they have Cavs/Warriors results.

Them and the Heat have such a salary to results disparity it’s a joke. But the Heat are because Bosh still counts. The Wizards? Man. How long does an owner take it? Think he’s cool paying repeater taxes? I read a Wizards writers reports showing how they could rather easily end up with a 169 million dollar payroll with 44 million of that being extra taxed repeater fees by then if they don’t start trading the guaranteed money their first rounders will be due. They may be able to do that by sending out the picks with their bad contracts but....that sucks long term.

Imagine the sticker shock of a 169 million dollar team....before the luxury tax penalties....for a team that is just pretty good? They are already one of the least profitable teams in the league. Their value was 18th and dropping partly due to needing a new arena naming licensing to pick up profits.

This is one reason I always stressed the “This is real money...” part. Someone has to come outta pocket for these teams and how long do they do it without real results?

Who wants to create another bitter money hungry owner? The guy isn’t cheap....yet. But even Paul Allen eventually told the Blazers he either wants to win or stop paying 100 million for the same results people paid 50 million for.

Otto turns to a superstar...ok. Even then who knows if it’s enough? But you took your shot. If this becomes the modern version of the Jailblazers and early 2000 Knicks dropping record money to be...decent?

Make an owner a penny pincher you stunt potential forever. He’s already apparently going against the city trying to put up big garish billboards to increase interest. How long till 150-200 million after taxes is a no go?

Even worth considering to you?
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:43 PM   #231
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Default Re: Manu Ginobili is the 3rd greatest SG in NBA History

Go read their owners state of the wizards address from about a week ago. On one hand itís good to see your Owner engaged like that but he made it clear he thought they would be better than this and he feels they are still a player away but he noted that they are already in the luxury tax and wonít be able to sign anyone. Talks about the warriors raising the bar so high with their four stars and how he wanted a potential 3....but it doesnít seem to be enough.

He talked about how important the draft will be since they are capped out....so I guess we can forget them packaging those expensive first rounders to move the bad deals.

You can tell he wants to win but I think heís realized that they donít have what it takes in the current landscape of super teams.

If heís talking about the luxury tax already....
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