1 year later: 100 Greatest Players of All-Time According to ISH

[L.Kizzle]

OK, a year ago the greatest threads in ISH history was started. We went through 100 plus days figuring out who were the best. Now a years later, looking back at the list, what would y'all change? Which legend is too high or too low, which current player moved up and which current player was too high to begin with?

Here is the list ...



ISH 100 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time
1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Earvin 'Magic' Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Jerry West
12. Julius Erving
13. Moses Malone
14. Elgin Baylor
15. Bob Pettit
16. John Havlicek
17. Karl Malone
18. George Mikan
19. David Robinson
20. Isiah Thomas
21. Charles Barkley
22. John Stockton
23. Bob Cousy
24. Kobe Bryant
25. Rick Barry
26. Scottie Pippen
27. Clyde Drexler
28. Gary Payton
29. Willis Reed
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Allen Iverson
32. Walt Frazier
33. Elvin Hayes
34. George Gervin
35. Jason Kidd
36. Dave Cowens
37. Kevin Garnett
38. Bob McAdoo
39. Nate Thurmond
40. Wes Unseld
41. Kevin McHale
42. Dolph Schayes
43. Dominique Wilkins
44. Bill Walton
45. Sam Jones
46. Kevin Johnson
47. Dennis Rodman
48. Dirk Nowitzki
49. Steve Nash
50. Billy Cunningham
-----
51. Nate 'Tiny' Archibald
52. 'Pistol' Pete Maravich
53. Tracy McGrady
54. Hal Greer
55. Jerry Lucas
56. Robert Parish
57. Earl 'the Pearl' Monroe
58. Bernard King
59. Artis Gilmore
60. Alex English
61. James Worthy
62. Joe Dumars
63. Bill Sharman
64. Reggie Miller
65. Paul Arizin
66. Sidney Moncrief
67. Dave DeBusschere
68. Dave Bing
69. David Thompson
70. Lenny Wilkens
71. Adrian Dantley
72. Bob Lanier
73. Neil Johntson
74. Walt Bellamy
75. Vince Carter
76. Spencer Haywood
77. Ray Allen
78. Dennis Johnson
79. Paul Pierce
80. Dikembe Mutombo
81. Connie Hawkins
82. Chris Webber
83. Chris Mullin
84. Grant Hill
85. Mitch Richmond
86. Dan Issel
87. 'Jumpin' Joe Fulks
88. Alonzo Mourning
89. Shawn Kemp
90. Mark Price
91. Anfernee 'Penny' Hardaway
92. Tommy Heinsohn
93. George McGinnis
94. Tim Hardaway
95. Mel Daniels
96. Bob Davies
97. Tom Chambers
98. Maurice Cheeks
99. Ben Wallace
100. Mark Aguirre

[Lebron23]

Kevin Garnett is now officially a top 25 player of all time.

[LBJ 4 MVP]

Kobe obviously moved way up. I didn't join ISH until we were at about #56, and I was voting from that point on. It was very fun and caused for alot of good basketball arguments.

[Emeka Okafor xD]

how the **** is ben wallance in that ****en list?

[SCY]

Robertson is nowhere near the top 10. If people knocked Garnett for never winning a title before this year, then you do the same for Robertson for riding a top 3 center's coattails to his only and undeserved championship. He was a useless role player at that time. Garnett's stats may be the greatest we've ever seen from a PF.

What kind of useless role player averages 18 points, 9 assists & 5 boards in the playoffs?

[LBJ 4 MVP]

What kind of useless role player averages 18 points, 9 assists & 5 boards in the playoffs?

It doesnt matter because he played in a WEAK ERA

[SCY]

I agree that he's overrated actually, but calling him a "useless role player" was overboard.

[L.Kizzle]

What kind of top 8 player of all-time misses the playoffs 4 straight seasons, plays terrible defense, and rides the coattails of the greatest center of his decade to his only championship?

Robertson is barely a top 8 PG in league history, let alone a top 8 player. He should be around the 25-30 range of all-time.

What kind of player had the misfortune of playing in the same conference as the Celtics, 6ers, Hawks and Knicks in the '60s.

[Glove_20]

KJ too low

GP about right

AI too high


Obviously Ray, KG, and Pierce could get some boosts

[guy]

I know I'm going to get hated on but I would move Shaq, Hakeem, and Duncan ahead of Russell and Oscar. After this year, Kobe, KG, Pierce, and Allen should be moved up. Kobe should be in the top 15, KG in the top 25, Pierce in AT LEAST the top 50, while Allen should just be moved up. And how the hell is Vince Carter ahead of Chris Webber? Thats just wrong. And am I missing something cause I don't see Wade or Lebron on that list? They've definitely played long enough and accomplished enough to be on the list. They've definitely surpassed guys like Shawn Kemp, Mark Price, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Tim Hardaway, Ben Wallace, Vince Carter, Mitch Richmond, and probably more.

[artificial]

Thank god the idiot from the weak era wasn't here when that list was done. Furthermore, his opinions shouldn't be in anyway considered for the intellectual health of this topic/list.

Garnett probably moved himself into the top 30 with this year's ring and DPOY. Kobe's MVP also probably gained him 2, maybe 3 spots. Pierce may have moved himself ahead of Ray, maybe not. Jason Kidd is too high.

I was freaked to see Ben Wallace, but having won 4 DOPY's, he surprisingly deserves it.

[Voulnet]

I'd move garbage like Cousy, Pettit and Mikan down to 70-80. Either that, or just completely take them off the list.

Move Bryant up to the 10-14 range, and way ahead of West, since he wouldn't be any good today, choked in the Finals, and rode Wilt's coattails to a few titles.

Robertson is nowhere near the top 10. If people knocked Garnett for never winning a title before this year, then you do the same for Robertson for riding a top 3 center's coattails to his only and undeserved championship. He was a useless role player at that time. Garnett's stats may be the greatest we've ever seen from a PF.

This list proves why Bill Russell may be the most overrated athlete in the history of American sports. What has he done to deserve a spot ahead of Shaq? Russell might be lucky to have 1/2 of Miami Shaq's impact if he played today. We're going rank a player who led his team to a 3-peat while averaging the absolute greatest Finals stats for a C in NBA history over an offensively challenged, one-dimensional Bill Russell? Not a chance. Shaq should be around 5-6. Move Russell down to 18-20.

You're a disgrace to basketball fans. George Mikan was a basketball team by himself, the guy won a f*cking championship playing with a broken hand.
You're a true disgrace to basketball, calling one of the Lakers and the NBA's greatest legends garbage. Go read something about Mikan before you shoot off your mouth.
The same goes for your comments about Bill Russell, who, deservedly, is the NBA's greatest winner.
11 Rings are not a fluke.

[highwhey]

There's a few players that belong in front of Duncan.

[L.Kizzle]

Mikan would either be the 12th man on the worst NBA team today or in the D-League. You could even argue (if you really wanted to) that he wouldn't be good enough to play for any D1 school today. It's not hard to win a championship when the second best player of your era was Bob Pettit, another overrated '50s HOFer who would be useless today. All '50s players would be garbage today, including Mikan and Pettit. I've probably forgotten more about Mikan than you ever knew about him.



Bill Russell is not the greatest winner in NBA history, which has been proven in this thread: http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92329

Russell was a good player, like I said. Being top 20 all-time means that only 19 other players in NBA history were greater than you.

But it's not about who would be the best today or who would make a team in 2008, it's what they did in their time.

It's kind of like the Beatles or Sly and the Family Stone. Would those bands be top selling artist in 2008, no because that's not what is popular now, but are they still great, of course.

[L.Kizzle]

If their time had no competition, they should be penalized for it. When a player like George Mikan -- who was considered the greatest basketball player of the first half-century -- averages 23/10 in the worst era ever, he should not be ranked ahead of true legends like Barkley, Kobe, Robinson Drexler, Iverson, Ewing, etc.

The only player who you could say had no real comp is George Mikan. His biggest comp were centers Clyde Lovellete and Neil Johnston, not really household names but HOF'ers. Even the other great earlier players had comp at their position, but he was really the only one at center.