Originally Posted by kizut1659
You are only focusing on select facts. Pippen' had a very low playoff field goal percentage not from ages 34 throgh 38 but from 30 through 37. . .and thats if you would not count percentages of 43 and 44 at age of 28 and 29 as low. Considering he came into the league at the age of 21 and it took him couple of years to develop, it means that his prime was pretty brief. I am not holding Pippen to a standard noone else can achieve - most elite players had longer primes - simple as that.
And yes, we will never truly know if Pippen was good enough to win as the "man" but I personally don't think so. In 1994, Pippen's playoff performance was underwhelming - 43% and 4.6 assists per game for the team's best player who is playing a "point forward" are just not good enough for a team to win a championship. In 1995, the Bulls were a .500 team before Jordan came back. I do not see how 1996-1998 version of Pippen was anywhere good enough to win a championhip as the man given the Iversen-like shooting percentage when you are not even the primary focus of the opposing defense. That leaves us with Pippen from 1990 through 1993. During these years, however, the league was still loaded and I would say Pippen was still not as good as Magic in 1991, Drexler in 1992 or Barkley in 1993 so I am not sure the Bulls would have won had Jordan been replaced with an average or even lets say a Pau Gasol level player.
Everybody shot bad in 96. The league was different. More defense oriented. The league avg was about 45%. When you say he shot bad what is your comparison? And I've talked basketball for a long time. And when discussing players, most people don't include a player when he's 34 and older. He's just a shell of his former self. Its like saying 38 year old jordan isn't the greatest ever cuz he didn't play the same as he did in his late 20 and early 30s. Its just an unreasonable assesment.
And again im curious as to how your ranking players. This a comparison in fg% oof scottie pippen and larry bird. I use bird cuz he's the consensus best sf ever.
Pippen in a more defensive minded era shot 47,46,50,50,47,47,43,44,40,42,42,33. That's an over a 12 yr span and comes out to 44% in a league that avg roughly 45%. Larry bird shot 47,47,43,42,52,46,52,48,45,44,41,50 over his 12 yr career which comes out to 46% in a league that avg rooughly 48%. So actually pippen shot better in his era, than bird did in his. Did pippen have some bad shooting years? Off course. But overall, it was just about avg.
Its just funny the way some people like to reason with things. Its like if I went and saw that some scrub shot a high% over the course of like 20 games in an extremly limited career, then try to make an argument that he's a better offensive force than shaq or wilt. Technically going soly off numbers. That's the truth. But we know its just not played out like that. But in a sense, this is what your dong with pippen. As another example, the 96 bulls led the league in scoring that year with an avg of I believe 103 ppg. In the 80s that wouldn't even get them in the top 1/3. Does that mean they can't score? No. It meant the league was different.
Antoher example from the opposite end of the spectrum. The bad boy pistons were one of the greatest defenses of all-time. They gave up 102 ppg in 89 good for 2nd. In 97, that's good for 24th. Does it mean that the 23 team in 97 were better defensively than the bad boys? Hell no. It the difference in the era.
Then again you show your unreasonable and biased side by saying that if you add a guy the caliber of a pau gasol, or better yet a guy like Mitch richmond, who was a solid 24 ppg scorer and a solid defensive player in place of pete myers, who was a scrappy defender and at bests could get you 6ppg. You feel that pippen still couldn't lead that team to championship. That's just crazy. How can you upgrade a postion that much and not feel that the pippen lead bulls coulve (not would've) competed for a championship. Especially when they were not that far off to begin with. Its not like jordan left and the bulls barely hovered around 500. They were one of the best teams in the league still.
I just don't see how what your saying really make sense other than you don't like pippen. Your nitpicking bro. And in a pippen appreciation thread no less. Noone is claiming pippen is a top 10 all-time player or anything. And me being a big pippen fan, I've been most frustrated at the level that pippen is held to. I mean these are the excuse as to why people knock pippen
The. Migran headache (forget the fact that his father had died a few DAYS prior and maybe he just coulndt cope),
He was a leader due to the gun charge (he said he carried it for protection) but jordan was accused of gambling, barkley has been arrested numerous time for fighting, kobe bryant was accused of rape, maggic got his coach fired and contracted hiv which cost his team a legit chance at more championships to name a few
Or he's not clutch , forget the fact that he not jordan lead the bulls back in game 5 of the 91 finals and finished with 31 pts, or how he lead the bulls back in the 4th quarter vs portaln in 92 with the bench in game 6. Or his defense against mark jackson in 98
Or he's soft. But he played in 98 with a bad back in game six and all through 97 after landing on his back making the game winning dunk shot vs washington.
or he couldn't score, thats just dumb
or he couldnt lead a team, we all know about what he did in 94. And forget the fact that he lead his 95 bulls in every big statistical category. And he was co-leader in 96-98 championship bulls
or jordan made him, again just dumb. Evey player has been tutored by somebody. And id hope that all players help each other out in praactice.
or he never won as the man, even though he only had 1 year to do it. Everybody else has had at least 7 jordan, shaq, bird, johnson, bryant. And at times failed miserbly.
or he didn't win in portland when he was friggn 35 to 37 yrs old. And had back and knee problems
And now his fg% which when in reality is right on par with the league he played in.
Its all just propaganda to degrade pip.