Which Players Have Gotten the Most Overrated Since Retirement

[tpols]

You can do this for every all-time great, Kobe (your boy) included.

Not really.. Some players are better than others. Kobe doesn't have a case for GOAT. He probably wouldn't beat MJ given equal teams. Bird, Magic, Russell, Wilt, and Kareem could. I feel like it takes a mixture of the mentality and the dominance.

Russell had it the best in his head even if he wasn't as dominant. Wilt had straight dominance with average mentality.. Kareem is just like Wilt. Michael Magic and Bird all had it 100 on both.. But they weren't big men so there were some things they just couldn't help.

Shaq had 100 dominance and 0 Mentality. Kobe's probably 50/50.

[lilgodfather1]

Jordan, Moses, Oscar.

Baylor is the most under.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Shaq

Does anybody else find it ironic that he's only considered the "MDE" for the 3 years of his career where he played with another top 10 GOAT?

His Orlando teams were stacked, got swept by Hakkeem in the finals.

His Lakers teams didn't go anywhere until Kobe developed into a top 5 player in the league

Dude played with 3 of the best guards in his era. 1 top 10 GOAT 1 top 25 GOAT.

Great player, but the "MDE" thing gets tossed around way to much, you're not really the "MDE" when you couldn't get it done with Penny, got swept by a Hakeem led Rockets team and only won championships when you had a top 2 player in the League playing beside you.

Dominant? yes, MDE? no

[DonDadda59]

It's fine to have him at the top spot.. He actually has the best case of anyone. But people literally scoff at you if you say someone else is better. If you put..

Larry Bird on the Knicks(instead of starks)
Magic on Portland(instead of porter)
Wilt on the Warriors(instead of webber)
Kareem on the Jazz(instead of malone)

In the 90s with equal teams Is MJ going to lead the Bulls past all of them every year? There's probably a different champion every year.

Yeah. Seconded. And while we are at it, let's put prime Shaq on Phoenix, next to Barkley and instead of Oliver Miller.

This is extremely flawed logic if I've ever seen it

Put Michael Jordan on the Lakers instead of Magic or put him on the Celtics instead of Bird in the 80s and have those guys see how great they look playing with Orlando Woolridge and Quintin Daley as their best teammates.

Or take Shaq off the 3-peat Lakers and replace him with Luc Longley.
Put Lebron on the Magic instead of Rashard Lewis.

It's an easy game to play, but it doesn't change the facts, does it?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Shaq

Does anybody else find it ironic that he's only considered the "MDE" for the 3 years of his career where he played with another top 10 GOAT?

His Orlando teams were stacked, got swept by Hakkeem in the finals.

His Lakers teams didn't go anywhere until Kobe developed into a top 5 player in the league

Dude played with 3 of the best guards in his era. 1 top 10 GOAT 1 top 25 GOAT.

Great player, but the "MDE" thing gets tossed around way to much, you're not really the "MDE" when you couldn't get it done with Penny, got swept by a Hakeem led Rockets team and only won championships when you had a top 2 player in the League playing beside you.

Dominant? yes, MDE? no

I have honestly never seen you post anything that wasn't drooling all over Kobe's balls.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not really.. Some players are better than others. Kobe doesn't have a case for GOAT. He probably wouldn't beat MJ given equal teams. Bird, Magic, Russell, Wilt, and Kareem could. I feel like it takes a mixture of the mentality and the dominance.

Russell had it the best in his head even if he wasn't as dominant. Wilt had straight dominance with average mentality.. Kareem is just like Wilt. Michael Magic and Bird all had it 100 on both.. But they weren't big men so there were some things they just couldn't help.

Shaq had 100 dominance and 0 Mentality. Kobe's probably 50/50.

I get what you're saying ...

BUT as much as I like Bird, when you take EVERYTHING into account, when ALL is said and DONE, he isn't going to be that much better than Kobe. Same goes for the second half of the top 10.

Again, IMO, your example(s) are applicable for MOST all-time greats.

[NumberSix]

Not really.. Some players are better than others. Kobe doesn't have a case for GOAT. He probably wouldn't beat MJ given equal teams. Bird, Magic, Russell, Wilt, and Kareem could. I feel like it takes a mixture of the mentality and the dominance.

Russell had it the best in his head even if he wasn't as dominant. Wilt had straight dominance with average mentality.. Kareem is just like Wilt. Michael Magic and Bird all had it 100 on both.. But they weren't big men so there were some things they just couldn't help.

Shaq had 100 dominance and 0 Mentality. Kobe's probably 50/50.

If the teams were equal, couldnt go either way? I mean, Jordan get beat by teams that didn't have anybody as good as Kobe.


Edit: ok I think I misunderstood. You meant outside of MJ and Kobe, the teams were equal. Yeah, you're probably right then.

[dh144498]

I have honestly never seen you post anything that wasn't drooling all over Kobe's balls.

same with you with LEbron.

[Sharmer]

The Magic/Bird thing is really weird.

When they were playing it was pretty universally agreed that Bird was the best player in the NBA. After they retired, now you pretty much NEVER see Bird ranked ahead of magic.

Bird doesn't appear in media as much Magic does. Therefore he kind of slips under the radar and out of discussions.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I also don't think Reggie was overrated. Was he your ideal choice of a #1 option? No. But the guy's teams always made the playoffs and he had great longevity. I don't think anyone is saying he is top 25 or anything crazy like that.

[SilkkTheShocker]

same with you with LEbron.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=294109

[tpols]

This is extremely flawed logic if I've ever seen it

Put Michael Jordan on the Lakers instead of Magic or put him on the Celtics instead of Bird in the 80s and have those guys see how great they look playing with Orlando Woolridge and Quintin Daley as their best teammates.

Or take Shaq off the 3-peat Lakers and replace him with Luc Longley.
Put Lebron on the Magic instead of Rashard Lewis.

It's an easy game to play, but it doesn't change the facts, does it?

You completely and totally missed the point dude.

[D.J.]

I also don't think Reggie was overrated. Was he your ideal choice of a #1 option? No. But the guy's teams always made the playoffs and he had great longevity. I don't think anyone is saying he is top 25 or anything crazy like that.

The Pacers didn't win more than 42 games until '94 and look who they had:


Haywoode Workman- decent playmaker
Derrick McKey- versatile big man
Dale Davis- double-double PF
Rik Smits- solid scorer and efficient
Byron Scott- double digit points off the bench
Antonio Davis- good defensive big off the bench


Then later on:


Mark Jackson- elite PG
Jalen Rose- versatile PG-SG-SF
Chris Mullin- shell of his former self, but still efficient
Rik Smits
Dale/Antonio Davis
Austin Croshere- good shooting big man


He was overrated. Very clutch for sure, but those Pacers teams were extremely balanced and solid defensively.

[DonDadda59]

pippen >> wade easily in terms of everything (leadership, defense, skill, hunger etc)

Show me one instance of Wade displaying this type of leadership and hunger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7SbG-8Bvgk

Pippen wasn't suited for top dog status and he knew it, that's why the Bulls worked so seamlessly.

[DonDadda59]

You completely and totally missed the point dude.

There was no point. It was just you posting impossible hypothetical situations were players from the 60-80s would be magically transported to the 90s to replace players who played during that time. And the whole point was (as usual) to take ridiculous underhanded swipes at the consensus greatest player in the sports History.

Like others have pointed out, you can play that silly game with any team/player from any era. It doesn't change the facts.