How can Kareem be 2nd GOAT when he's not even the consensus best center?

[Derivative]

I am so confused about why most rankings list him as number 2 all time, when he's not even the consensus best center of all time.

In terms of dominance, Kareem played in a very weak era during his prime, and he was never as dominant as Shaq. Kareem never had a season with PER over 30, while Shaq had 3 seasons with over 30 PER. There's only 1 player I would take over a peak Shaq, and that's MJ, not KAJ.

In terms of winning, Bill Russell >>>> Kareem. Also Kareem never won much before he was teamed up with Magic. Kareem only had 1 ring before teaming up with the greatest point guard of all time on one of the GOAT teams ever.

So I don't get why Kareem is always ranked so high. Longevity =/= greatness.

[iamgine]

6 MVPs + 6 Championships + 9x all defensive team + 1 unstoppable move.

Plus eye test.

[Nowitness]

6 MVPs + 6 Championships + 9x all defensive team + 1 unstoppable move.

Plus eye test.

And a little bit of Magic.

He's not in my top 10. Walton slayed that Islamist every time they locked horns.

[Marchesk]

Kareem did have a 34.8/16.6/4.6 season. He also had 17 straight 20+ seasons. Shaq never led the league in blocked shots or rebounding. Also never had more than 3.8 assists, but Kareem had a 5 assist season. Kareem also averaged more steals.

Kareem's first six seasons:

30.4/15.3/4.3 with 1.2 steals* and 3.4 blocks*

Playoffs:

30.5/16.9/4 with 1.4 steals* and 2.9 blocks*

*blocks and steals only recorded for fifth and sixth seasons

[Nowitness]

Kareem did have a 34.8/16.6/4.6 season. He also had 17 straight 20+ seasons. Shaq never led the league in blocked shots or rebounding. Also never had more than 3.8 assists, but Kareem had a 5 assist season. Kareem also averaged more steals.

Kareem's first six seasons:

30.4/15.3/4.3 with 1.2 steals and 3.4 blocks

Playoffs:

30.5/16.9/4 with 1.4 steals and 2.9 blocks

Blocks/Steals weren't recorded for his first four seasons.

You stay lying.

[Marchesk]

Blocks/Steals weren't recorded for his first four seasons.

You stay lying.

I averaged out the last two seasons for those stats. I'll make a note.

[Prime_Shaq]

He is the best center

[julizaver]

I am so confused about why most rankings list him as number 2 all time, when he's not even the consensus best center of all time.

In terms of dominance, Kareem played in a very weak era during his prime, and he was never as dominant as Shaq. Kareem never had a season with PER over 30, while Shaq had 3 seasons with over 30 PER. There's only 1 player I would take over a peak Shaq, and that's MJ, not KAJ.

In terms of winning, Bill Russell >>>> Kareem. Also Kareem never won much before he was teamed up with Magic. Kareem only had 1 ring before teaming up with the greatest point guard of all time on one of the GOAT teams ever.

So I don't get why Kareem is always ranked so high. Longevity =/= greatness.

Who says that Kareem is the 2nd GOAT ? And behind who is a good question also?

What I could tell for sure is Kareem > Shaq (not by miles of course) in longevity and primes, Kareem definitely TOP 5 ALL-TIME.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

He's not in my top 10.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Shaq's my favorite center but Kareem's the GOAT center (even if by peak, Shaq gets that edge over him and Wilt). Russell won more but wasn't as good of a player, Chamberlain could go toe-to-toe as far as peaks but he didn't win as much and didn't have that type of longevity.

Weak era? Speaking of direct competition, he went against the likes of Wilt, Walton, Reed, Moses, Hakeem, Cowens, Lanier, Ewing, Unseld..... Faced some terrific teams too.

Dude was still winning FMVP, having one of the GOAT Finals at age 38, in the most competitive/stacked era.

Never won much before Magic? Get your facts straight. Look at what he did in 1977 for example, check out that supporting cast please. Regardless, he was already a champ and FMVP, even MVP, way before Magic.

He's one of the best scorers ever, great defender and rebounder at his best, one of the best passing centers, very high IQ, extremely tall and very athletic, had the best scoring weapon in his arsenal...

6 rings, 6x MVP, 2x FMVP, would've gotten at least a couple DPOY if it was given out already, 10x all-nba 1st, 11x all-defensive, 19x all-star, 2x scoring champ, 4x blocks leader, leding rebounder once, ROY, all-time leading scorer...

He was THAT dominant.

He has the talent, the amazing peak play, the terrific dominance, the stats, the individual and collective accolades, one of the best longevity-wise... And you're here talking about PER and shit?

[theaussieguy]

because its possible to be better than a player yet worse at a certain position. For example, westbrook is a 'better' player than a lot of PG's, but as far as his proficiency as a PG goes,he is worse than CP3/curry/rondo etc because he plays like a shooting guard and will selfishly chuck his team out of a game, something a true PG just doesn't do. Assuming thunder have durant, he is a net negative when u consider they could get a far less expensive PG who actually plays like a PG while spending the left over money to improve other positions while utilizing a once in a generation player like Durant with proper team flow. Its the problem with some players, they are so good u have to pay them a lot, but in doing so only detracts from ur teams overall potential because they just dont play the position properly.

[ImKobe]

GOAT longetivity
6 time champ
6 time MVP
slayed Wilt when they played eachother
skyhook
winning FMVP over prime Magic at 38 years of age

dude averaged 22 ppg on 60% shooting with over 2 blocks a game for an entire season and then followed it up with a 22 ppg championship run in the Playoffs and averaging 26 ppg on 60% shooting in the Finals vs a prime McHale & Parish front court.

[Nowitness]

GOAT longetivity
6 time champ
6 time MVP
slayed Wilt when they played eachother
skyhook
winning FMVP over prime Magic at 38 years of age

dude averaged 22 ppg on 60% shooting with over 2 blocks a game for an entire season and then followed it up with a 22 ppg championship run in the Playoffs and averaging 26 ppg on 60% shooting in the Finals vs a prime McHale & Parish front court.

Tim Duncan
Bill has 5 more
Weak era
Walton slayed Alcindor
6'5 White guys
4 Rebounds Per Game in the final v Detroit

[Spurs5Rings2014]

westbrook is a 'better' player than a lot of PG's, but as far as his proficiency as a PG goes,he is worse than CP3/curry/rondo etc

[LAZERUSS]

Tim Duncan
Bill has 5 more
Weak era
Walton slayed Alcindor
6'5 White guys
4 Rebounds Per Game in the final v Detroit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHM...os=YqP06ya0k4w

Yep...sure looks like Walton is "slaying" Kareem doesn't it?

And for the record, Kareem averaged 30 ppg on a .607 FG% in that series...all while being doubled and tripled in every game.