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Old 02-06-2012, 05:47 PM   #91
bsyde82
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
I would say it's more mildly defensive. Incredibly defensive would be like what Gisele did to the Patriots receivers and throwing them under the bus.

Believe me I understand the joke. Just don't really see it as very humorous.

Yea, I know you get the "joke", and it wasn't meant to bring the house down. Just a common phrase that sarcastically fit the situation, that's all.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:49 PM   #92
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
There was a decent amount of luck that allowed Eli's team to win that really had nothing to do with how good he or Brady were. Like.. Manningham's catch in double coverage versus Welker's drop in zero coverage. Both those passes were catchable balls with Welker's being the easier of the two yet things went in the opposite direction. nothing Brady could do if his guys were going to drop balls in the clutch all game.. Gronkowski looks like an all time great TE all year and then gets beat out on a critical jumpball by some linebacker. The QB only throws the ball, the other guys still have to catch it.

I would add on that Gronkowski was by far Brady's most lethal threat, particularly towards the end of the season, then suffers that ankle injury in the waning moments of the game BEFORE THE SB. By BERNARD POLLARD aka Patriot Star Player Assassin. A healthy Gronk changes things...

Bad luck for NE, more good fortune for the Giants...
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:52 PM   #93
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

People must have missed the part growing up when you are taught to be men. Every loss by any team is not a loss, but rather a list of excuses, flukes, and discrediting of the opponent. Brady lost so he must have cheated when he won. Eli, he's just been lucky, two separate years, two separate runs in which he played well EVERY game.

Every football game has plays that can go either way. When they do,you fight through it. It's football, not girls playing peewee soccer.

Eli was freaking amazing at times this year, and was a deserved MVP of the Super Bowl. Using that as reason to list every play that wasn't a dominant play as flukey is trying to discredit him. And don't call me a homer, i must have posted 10 times last night and this morning that the people declaring Brady "sucked" somehow because he lost one game are completely nuts.

Be men, grow a pair and just admit the team you wanted to win LOST.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:53 PM   #94
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

That Welker drop happened because of a shitty throw. It doesn't matter if he got his hands on it, he had to corkscrew his body in midair to catch a pass that was 7 or 8 feet off the ground. Leading Welker up the seam on that play is a routine throw.

Brady cacked that one. Sometimes the moment is just too big for people.



















But not Eli.

Last edited by Scoooter : 02-06-2012 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:53 PM   #95
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsyde82
I would add on that Gronkowski was by far Brady's most lethal threat, particularly towards the end of the season, then suffers that ankle injury in the waning moments of the game BEFORE THE SB. By BERNARD POLLARD aka Patriot Star Player Assassin. A healthy Gronk changes things...

Bad luck for NE, more good fortune for the Giants...
You must have missed when our whole secondary and linebacking core went down preseason. Wait, i don't think i mentioned it as an excuse. BECAUSE IM NOT A WOMAN.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:53 PM   #96
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsyde82
Not at all 2 options...it SEEMED like if I didn't give Eli effusive praise, I'm deemed a hater. In summary, my opinion on Eli is he's a great QB, not quite in the class of Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Peyton, but real good. Just not HOF NOW good. And the effusive praise coming his way currently, and it is effusive praise, is just a tad overblown, IMHO. And his run of good fortune is not a knock on his QB abilities, it's just an observation that I think deserves some notice when evaluating Eli, comparing him to Brady, etc etc.

Re: Brady's mistakes, why is this an attack on Brady now? I don't think I said Brady was flawless or anything? The welker catch, it can be debated. Tough catch for you or I? Sure. But a pro-bowl receiver makes that catch. Pretty similar to the catch Jimmy Graham made against the niners that he eventually took to the house. And the analysis I've heard on that catch was that Brady put it there so Welker wouldn't get blown up by Kenny Phillips.


I've been listening to some Boston radio today, and it seems like everyone is on the fence with Welker. I think most people realize that that was an extremely hard catch to make, and you can't put that solely on the receiver. Brady gets some of the blame too.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:56 PM   #97
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
I've been listening to some Boston radio today, and it seems like everyone is on the fence with Welker. I think most people realize that that was an extremely hard catch to make, and you can't put that solely on the receiver. Brady gets some of the blame too.
It was a not perfect throw which led to a not perfect catch. If Welker catches it, it's a good catch, not a great one. I say 50/50.

oops, got the giggles remembering we won the super bowl.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:04 PM   #98
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

my final thoughts are simple...

the "luck/fluke" excuse is for losers, period.

You make your own luck.

Bunch of whiny haters with plenty of sand up their vags...
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:10 PM   #99
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
You must have missed when our whole secondary and linebacking core went down preseason. Wait, i don't think i mentioned it as an excuse. BECAUSE IM NOT A WOMAN.

Look guy, I can't speak for anyone else, but never did I say Eli won solely because of luck, or Patriots should've won because so and so. Giants won fair and square. I was just pointing to a string of good fortune that I've never seen before, something that, IMHO, bears mentioning when evaluating Eli and his place among QBs today, and all time.

And can you not see the significant difference between having injuries early on, then getting healthy late (as what happened with the Giants), as opposed to the opposite (as what happened in the case of Gronk)? The former is good fortune, the latter is not.

EVERY WINNING TEAM needs good fortune. The Giants, a good team to begin with, got it this year, and it proved to be a huge factor in their road to the SB win.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:14 PM   #100
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClutchOver9000
my final thoughts are simple...

the "luck/fluke" excuse is for losers, period.

You make your own luck.

Bunch of whiny haters with plenty of sand up their vags...

Defensive fans are just as irrational as "whiny haters" - can you see the difference between:

1. Eli and the giants are really good, and they are the champs, but please believe they had an amazing streak of good fortune along the way. So let's not get carried away with the HOF talk, Eli > Brady, Eli > Peyton, etc etc.

and

2. Eli and the giants suck. They're just plain lucky and the win was a total fluke.

My position is the former. Do you see the difference?
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:23 PM   #101
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsyde82
Defensive fans are just as irrational as "whiny haters" - can you see the difference between:

1. Eli and the giants are really good, and they are the champs, but please believe they had an amazing streak of good fortune along the way. So let's not get carried away with the HOF talk, Eli > Brady, Eli > Peyton, etc etc.

and

2. Eli and the giants suck. They're just plain lucky and the win was a total fluke.

My position is the former. Do you see the difference?

where in any of my posts did i single you out?

im as objective as anybody, therefore i will always argue in favor of a very talented QB who no matter what he does, never gets the credit...

I've heard it all when it comes to Eli.

"Luckiest game manager of all time", "Trent Dilfer 2.0", "fluke SB win", "not even a top 10 QB", "worlds apart from the elite QBs in the game", "his defense carries him", "his receievers carry him", "horseshoe up his a$$", "the adopted brother", "he'll never win another SB again", "its the system" etc.

dude I've heard it all...

I did not single you out, I was just making what was supposed to be my final thought.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:35 PM   #102
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClutchOver9000
where in any of my posts did i single you out?

im as objective as anybody, therefore i will always argue in favor of a very talented QB who no matter what he does, never gets the credit...

I've heard it all when it comes to Eli.

"Luckiest game manager of all time", "Trent Dilfer 2.0", "fluke SB win", "not even a top 10 QB", "worlds apart from the elite QBs in the game", "his defense carries him", "his receievers carry him", "horseshoe up his a$$", "the adopted brother", "he'll never win another SB again", "its the system" etc.

dude I've heard it all...

I did not single you out, I was just making what was supposed to be my final thought.

Sorry, quoting you wasn't meant to single you out either. It was just a convenient quote to represent some of the defensiveness I've encountered -simply because I mentioned the streak of good fortune. I wasn't trying to discredit Eli - just making an observation that I feel should be considered before de facto inducting him into the HoF right this instant.

To be sure, I do think Eli has HoF potential, and he's a great QB who has a particular flair for the dramatic. I just think the regular season counts for something in the NFL - consistent excellence in the regular season is the hallmark of any HoF QB, and Eli, to me, hasn't reached that level quite yet. And I'm kind of just venting because I've heard some ridiculous over the top statements made by all types of people, from casual fans to the "experts" on TV. Rodney Harrison saying after the game that he'd rather have Eli than Brady in the clutch his just one egregious example, particularly egregious because he played with Brady.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:49 PM   #103
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsyde82
Sorry, quoting you wasn't meant to single you out either. It was just a convenient quote to represent some of the defensiveness I've encountered -simply because I mentioned the streak of good fortune. I wasn't trying to discredit Eli - just making an observation that I feel should be considered before de facto inducting him into the HoF right this instant.

To be sure, I do think Eli has HoF potential, and he's a great QB who has a particular flair for the dramatic. I just think the regular season counts for something in the NFL - consistent excellence in the regular season is the hallmark of any HoF QB, and Eli, to me, hasn't reached that level quite yet. And I'm kind of just venting because I've heard some ridiculous over the top statements made by all types of people, from casual fans to the "experts" on TV. Rodney Harrison saying after the game that he'd rather have Eli than Brady in the clutch his just one egregious example, particularly egregious because he played with Brady.

I agree on the regular season point.

He'll never be considered amongst the likes of the big 3 (4 when you include Peyton) because he hasn't yet brought it on a consistent game in and game out, year in and year out basis in the reg season.

But Eli is clearly on the borderline of that group. Before he was ranked considerably lower.

Eli is in the 2nd tier of QBs grouped along w/ the likes of Big Ben and Rivers but in my honest opinion, Eli has shown at times that he can be as good as any QB in the game, but the thing I like most about the guy is that he's just MONEY in the big games, and that's more important than anything.

As for the Harrison comment, 2 things....

#1. He's a tool

#2. He's not wrong in some respects...Brady's obviously the better QB overall and it is dumb that he's siding against Tom Terrific but AT THIS MOMENT, I think Eli is the hottest "closer" in the game...
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:00 PM   #104
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClutchOver9000

As for the Harrison comment, 2 things....

#1. He's a tool

#2. He's not wrong in some respects...Brady's obviously the better QB overall and it is dumb that he's siding against Tom Terrific but AT THIS MOMENT, I think Eli is the hottest "closer" in the game...

Agreed that Harrison's a tool. I can live with that assessment - that Eli is the "hottest closer" in the game. But I can't ignore the fact that, to be specific to this game, Eli was given the opportunity to have that 3 minute drive to win it. And to his credit, he delivered. It's not like Brady had a reasonable chance to answer, and failed. And the welker catch will be forever debatable depending on whom you side with, but he makes that catch and it's probably 80% game over. Got to have the opportunity to be clutch first, which depends on a whole mess of factors completely out of the control of any single player.

Eli made the most of his clutch opportunities this year, and for that, he deserves all the praise he gets for being clutch. But extending that praise to his entire career is just a bit premature.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:44 PM   #105
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Default Re: Gotta hand it to Eli. He's amazing.

Hottest closet, elite QB, on Brady level. Even if you dont want to give Eli any of those compliments? You cant deny the guy is a gamer who at the end of the game if he has the pigskin? You better start praying to GOD he pulls a Tony Romo. Eli can go 5-30 up until crunch time? If the defense has kept the NYG in it and Eli has a chance to drive them down and score? He'll do it. Even Tom Brady acknowledged that when asked would he rather have the ball in his hands or let Eli.
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