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Old 10-08-2007, 02:27 PM   #16
A.M.G.
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bballnoob
Babcock was garbage but I'm not gonna heap all the blame for the Hoffa pick. Didn't he have like 2 weeks till the draft to do everything? Skipping Iggy always hurts though.
We could also have gotten Josh Smith . Joey Graham at SF when we could have had Josh Smith/Iggy? That is just brutal.
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

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Originally Posted by A.M.G.
We could also have gotten Josh Smith . Joey Graham at SF when we could have had Josh Smith/Iggy? That is just brutal.


That wasn't Grahams draft year.

Graham was chosen over Danny Granger and Gerald Green.
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Old 10-09-2007, 01:03 AM   #18
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

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Originally Posted by Dr.Funk
Yeah, Babcock didn't pick Hoffa. It was Jack McCloskey.

I don't understand why people don't get this...

also, if we don't have that 16th pick from the Carter trade, we'd be looking at Graham with number 7...

with that extra pick we were able to take a chance with C.V... and hold off and see what we would be left at 16, because Charlie wasn't gonna survive that long...

so in the end, without that carter trade that everybody deems so bad... we'd have decent amount of cap space with no ford, no villy and just graham... can't get much far with that team...
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

Hoffa had all the skills to be a great Center in the league, but I really questioned his mental capacity sometimes. I mean, there were reports for the 2 years he was here saying he was the hardest working player at practice, but I bet he just wasn't that smart. No offense, but he was only in America for 4 years, and when you come here as an adult (with expectations), its harder to grasp the culture - so maybe he was just getting use to life in college, with close teammates, and then he gets drafted, and his world changed again..? Who knows...but Hoffa definitely isn't a bad player - bad decision maker, yes.

Speaking of the Iggy pick (again) what do you guys think would have happened if Babcock were around during the 2003 draft?Mike Sweetney anyone??
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

I really do not regret the Hoffa pick......Hoffa got us Humphries, plus if we got Smith or Iggy, we would have been better, not great but better and we would been a sub-par playoff team...one of those teams who are struggling to make playoffs...but you need to understand, it paved us to learn, then we did the humphries trade (beneficial), carter trade (beneficial....got CV and traded for Ford) and now look at out team.....we got a great #1 pick....and I don't regret it at all..Question is, who would you rather have, Bargnani or Josh Smith?
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:17 PM   #21
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

It is not like Graham was ranked 30th in the draft that year and taken way higher than expected. He was taken around where he was expected to be taken.

I have given Graham his 2 years to learn and go through his ups and downs. Now he has to prove he was a good pick at 16. He does have a short leash.

I hope he is up for the task and earns some playing time but if not then whatever. It is not like the Raptors are paying him $7 or 8 mil per year. He is still getting paid based on being a 16th pick.

It would not surprise me if there are other teams interested in taking a chance on him and the Raptors get something back for him. He is not a headcase. He's a good guy still with potential. Maybe a change of scenery would be better for his game.

Besides Granger and Green who it seems everyone in hindsight states the Raptors should have taken are not all-stars anyways nor have they lead their teams anywhere. It was Graham late last season who took over for Garbo and helped the Raptors win some games and secure a spot in the playoffs.

And Babcock. Not the best GM in the hostory of the NBA but certainly not any worse than the guy who selected Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan.
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

"Joey himself is at least semi-aware that he hasn't been anywhere near good enough up to this point,"

The problem is that Joey is at best "Semi Aware" in general. You can somewhat teach BB IQ, but if someone is just kinda slow...not much you can do.
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Funk
That wasn't Grahams draft year.

Graham was chosen over Danny Granger and Gerald Green.
Oh yeah, Aruajo, my bad.
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

Joey was slated to go around that pick but the someone who should've gone higher like Danny Granger fell right into the Raptors' laps and they passed on him. He was easily the more talented player with more potential and yet the Raptors still went with their guy. It doesn't bother me that they took Joey at 16, it bothers me that they passed up the obvious correct pick in favour of Joey.
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Joey was slated to go around that pick but the someone who should've gone higher like Danny Granger fell right into the Raptors' laps and they passed on him. He was easily the more talented player with more potential and yet the Raptors still went with their guy. It doesn't bother me that they took Joey at 16, it bothers me that they passed up the obvious correct pick in favour of Joey.

I think I recall an early mock draft saying Graham was set to go anywhere from 8-12, and granger right after him at 13. Araujo was set at 15 or so too. Biedrins would have been a great pick.
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Old 10-11-2007, 03:56 AM   #26
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Joey was slated to go around that pick but the someone who should've gone higher like Danny Granger fell right into the Raptors' laps and they passed on him. He was easily the more talented player with more potential and yet the Raptors still went with their guy. It doesn't bother me that they took Joey at 16, it bothers me that they passed up the obvious correct pick in favour of Joey.

There were concern about Granger's knee and Gerald Green reportedly didn't want to be in Toronto... Babcock to me went with the safest pick, since Graham had the best training camp of the four (including Wright - picked before Graham), I really don't have a problem because hindsight is always 20/20... you just have to tip your hats to GM who make those type of steals... at least we still got hope with ukic ...
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Old 10-11-2007, 09:15 AM   #27
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

The biggest problem with Joey is he made it where he is today with a decent basketball game and a ton of athletism. The only position where that will take you really far is the center position.

What he lacks is the above average basketball IQ you need to put it all together at the NBA level.

I see this year the same as last, decent game and then a few brutal ones. I quite frankly have given up on Joey and would like him gone from the roster.
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Old 10-11-2007, 09:29 AM   #28
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

I really don't think potential and Joey should be used together at all anymore. It's not like he's 19. The guy is close to being in his basketball prime in terms of age and he's done nothing. It took him 4 years to actually do anything in college. Same with Hoffa. I had a problem with it then and still do. Not because we should have taken a certain other player, but because we should have taken ANY other player that high. Everyone was shocked and said he could have been had 20 picks later. So, that says to me there weren't too many mocks that had him even at 15. He too was 'old' as a rookie, 24 I believe. Biedris was 6 years younger! If you want a tall, white centre, why not take the guy who is SIX years younger. Not the 24 year old who average 0.1 blks per game in college.

From a previous post, it's not like anyone is saying Granger and Green are all-stars who have 'done anything'...yet. But they still are clearly better picks and Granger did fall to us and we passed, and Green fell to us (he was projected as high as #4 overall that year) and we passed. But, sometimes the GM's hand are tied and it turns out they were that time. However, I still have little respect for the 'job' Babcock did. The VC deal was also horrible, we got no cap relief, we got no young potential players and we got no high draft picks. Those are the only 3 things you target when you deal a disgrunteled star.

Oh well, things are in good hands now. I think it's safe to say neither Hoffa, nor Graham would have been selected by the Raps if BC was in charge.
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Old 10-11-2007, 09:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: Joey's time to shine?!

Biedrins was barely scouted IIRC. GS was one of the few teams who really knew about him. The way I see the VC deal is we traded a 16ppg guy for cap relief (all those contracts are off the books now I beleive) and some picks (misused 1 of them). Obviously after VC exploded, everyone's but that's what you get for the value Vince had at the time. Too bad he didn't get dealt before the season started.
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