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Old 03-12-2011, 11:38 PM   #31
Jailblazers7
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

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Originally Posted by Penny37
You are wrong.
Even now there is not enough help to cover all the needs that are out there.
What makes you think by getting rid of the cause for most of the help being given, somehow the world will magically find it in their hearts to give even more?

It's ridiculous to make assumptions like the one you're making.

No we just have different approaches to the idea of humanity and religion. It seems to me that you believe humanity is lost and inherently bad without religion which reigns in humanity and influences us to be good and charitable (don't want to put words in you mouth, just what it seems like imo). Whether you believe the Bible is actually God's word or not, religion has achieve such a prominence in society and the world because people want to do good and be good and they've found a ideology in Christianity (or any other religion) that is harmonious with this desire.

And I'm approached this thread with the hypothetical scenario that relgion never existed while you are talking about removing religion from the world as it is. I simply state that I think the world would largely develop the same way had religion never existed.

I never said religion isn't doing good in the world either. I just stated that I think people would still be doing good without it.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

i highly doubt there would be even close to as much charitable deeds done if there was no religion
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:41 PM   #33
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

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Originally Posted by ShannonElements
OK, that last part was just worded poorly then. It does irk me when people make the assertion that without religion the world would be in anarchy with what would otherwise be good people raping little girls at will.
To re-summarize what I posted earlier so people understand it a little better, what I'm saying is human's will determine right or wrong not matter what. Because of this ultimately it'll lead to religion or religious concepts created by man in the first place. I feel it's literally an impossibility for religion not to exist as long as human's exists because we're going to develop what is right or wrong in our world no matter what, and different people will determine different things right or wrong.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:41 PM   #34
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

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Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
No we just have different approaches to the idea of humanity and religion. It seems to me that you believe humanity is lost and inherently bad without religion which reigns in humanity and influences us to be good and charitable (don't want to put words in you mouth, just what it seems like imo). Whether you believe the Bible is actually God's word or not, religion has achieve such a prominence in society and the world because people want to do good and be good and they've found a ideology in Christianity (or any other religion) that is harmonious with this desire.

And I'm approached this thread with the hypothetical scenario that relgion never existed while you are talking about removing religion from the world as it is. I simply state that I think the world would largely develop the same way had religion never existed.

I never said religion isn't doing good in the world either. I just stated that I think people would still be doing good without it.
Okay, gotcha. Yeah if religion NEVER existed, I would agree with you in that people would still find other reasons to give, but not nearly as much.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:41 PM   #35
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

Ok then, since this discussion is entirely hypothetical and we've both stated our opinions, we will just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:45 PM   #36
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

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Originally Posted by Stuckey
i highly doubt there would be even close to as much charitable deeds done if there was no religion
Just to say "what if" I disagree. Naturally I think people want to help each other, I think their would be plenty of donations, if not more. You won't have one religion telling the other you're wrong for your belief, or you're wrong with your idea of a higher power. If that were the case the only thing we would have in the end is each other and nothing else, which promotes us trying to help each other.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:45 PM   #37
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

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Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
Ok then, since this discussion is entirely hypothetical and we've both stated our opinions, we will just have to agree to disagree.
It's pretty much going to go this way on any discussion of religion, politics, abortion, or 9/11 conspiracies.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:49 PM   #38
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

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Originally Posted by ShannonElements
Are you sure the fact that you're devoutly religious isn't coloring your opinion in this regard? It's an absolute crapshoot. You don't know one way or another. You want to think this because it helps to justify your faith.
Well I mean.. This is a complete hypothetical.
If religion NEVER existed who knows what the world would be like.

But I'll use myself as an example. I'm by no means a saint, I'm not trying to boast or whatever. But I tithe on a weekly basis and 30% of the money that my church raises goes directly to charity.

If I wasn't religious I definitely wouldn't tithe. Why would I give away 10% of my income for no reason? I might still give to charities here and there but I wouldn't give as much. And I"m just one person out of a billion.

So I'm just predicting that people wouldn't be as generous. Obviously no proof either way.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:50 PM   #39
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

And the exact amount of charitable donations is only a drop in the ocean when we are talking about the development of world history lol. There would still be wars, there would still be oppression, there would still be seperated factions, there would still be slavery, there would still be conquest etc. All that stuff would happen with or without religion.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

A lot of our rules and morals of society derive from religion, so the world would probably be more violent and unpredictable because humans are designed, just like every other animal, to survive at any cost. Lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, etc would probably be more abundant since it wouldn't be frowned upon. Religion has served it's purpose.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:52 PM   #41
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

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Originally Posted by Meticode
Just to say "what if" I disagree. Naturally I think people want to help each other, I think their would be plenty of donations, if not more. You won't have one religion telling the other you're wrong for your belief, or you're wrong with your idea of a higher power. If that were the case the only thing we would have in the end is each other and nothing else, which promotes us trying to help each other.
I agree. There is something built inside of us that wants to help other people. But not if it affects our own life in a negative regard. Obviously this isn't true for everyone but I'm talking about the majority.

If a stranger was getting gang-raped on a street corner, not many would jump in to save him. Call the cops or something maybe, but nothing more. If we really want to help each other, why aren't we sending money to orphans and widows in Africa? Why aren't we doing something more about the fact that there are more slaves today than ever before in human history?

Out of sight, out of mind.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:56 PM   #42
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

Whoever created religion (I don't believe in God) must have been a psychological genius. Humans are weak, not by nature but because of the environment. This weakness can be exploited by giving people faith in some bearded dude in the clouds. Through that newly instilled faith people can use religion to further whatever agenda they feel is necessary for them to gain control over the populace. Thats my theory.

If faith and religion is taken away I see people being more self reliant and rational thinkers. Because of that I believe society would progress at a much higher rate, and people would be more conscious about their reality and a lot of the problems we have now (global warming, overconsumption) would not exist.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:56 PM   #43
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

okay without religion or the belief in god or karma, what motivation would people have for helping others?

knowing right and wrong is easy but what better way to motivate someone with the promise of eternal heaven or eternal hell
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:01 AM   #44
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

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Originally Posted by Stuckey
okay without religion or the belief in god or karma, what motivation would people have for helping others?

knowing right and wrong is easy but what better way to motivate someone with the promise of eternal heaven or eternal hell

How the **** am I supposed to know?

Maybe philosophy would be the guiding light of society or some other social institution would replace religion but would still be based on morality. Like I said, it's pretty much impossible to wrap your head around the idea of a world without religion so its extremely difficult to objectively think of alternatives in a different reality.
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:02 AM   #45
Meticode
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Default Re: if religion or faith never existed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuckey
okay without religion or the belief in god or karma, what motivation would people have for helping others?
None, we'd go back to clubbing people in the heads I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuckey
knowing right and wrong is easy but what better way to motivate someone with the promise of eternal heaven or eternal hell
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