The GOAT must have the best teams of his era.... right?

[Vino24]

Bill Russell is the GOAT and he made his team the GOAT.

[NBAGOAT]

It holds plenty of cred because the Bulls won all their Finals and are considered the goat dynasty and goat team since the 3-point line was invented

Otoh, lebron routinely loses with good teams and has inferior teams to his peers



Negative.. the 96' Bulls would put Curry and Klay to bed easily (unathletic kids that routinely get hurt trying to dunk).. It's hard to imagine Curry/Klay holding a candle to MJ/Scottie

Adding KD doesn't matter - peak MJ/Scottie aren't getting hurt or tricking off a 3-2 lead like Houston in 18'... ...

well first you're just ignoring one certain player in kd lol but let's go off these claims then. Do you believe the same for other versions of the Bulls or do the kd warriors win? If you do, then does MJ being an underdog according to you in 91, 93, and 98 mean you truly believe the lakers, suns, and jazz are better than the kd warriors.

fyi, i'll get shit for this but I think the rockets are better than those 3 teams personally.

[3ball]

Bill Russell is the GOAT and he made his team the GOAT.

At 2-pointer basketball....

MJ has the most rings in 3-pointer basketball..

[Vino24]

At 2-pointer basketball....

MJ has the most rings in 3-pointer basketball..

Russell destroyed Wilt just about every year in the playoffs. Who did MJ face that was comparable to Wilt? (You have Wilt as 2nd GOAT so you can't side step this one)

[jstern]

Lebron didn't face more comp, but facing great teams doesn't prevent you from having a great team yourself that can compete evenly... or an even better team for that matter... So "comp" is no excuse for not having a great team yourself

Lebron simply failed to have the best teams and ceded that to his peers (multiple peers)

In Miami, he ceded it to Dallas and an old Spurs team - neither of these teams had more "help"; they just played a superior way than the nash/cp3/harden/lebron style of play

And Klay was a 1st time all-star in 2015, whereas Kyrie was all-star MVP in 2014 - so the Cavs matched the Warriors in talent, but were still perennial underdogs... The upset nature of their win in 2016 carried over to 2017 as 51-win underdogs again..

Otoh, MJ would've flirted with 70 wins like Kawhi did... So 2016 wouldn't be an upset win and the team would go into 2017 as juggernauts looking to repeat their 70-win season, like it's 1997 all over again




Uh, yeah there is... There's a different level for the goat... 2+2=4... the better you are, the less help you need

As soon as Pippen reached a minimum level of viability as a 2nd option, MJ was literally unbeatable in full seasons and had the best teams ever

So ur wrong - but it doesn't work that way for lebron because he isn't goat.. it works that way for MJ because he is




MJ had bigger upsets than Lebron:

2007 Cavs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 [COLOR="White"]t[/COLOR]DET:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [COLOR="White"]n[/COLOR]#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed

^^^ Both MJ and lebron had young teams in those years.. But when they had better teams and casts in later years, only mj had perennial favorites, while lebron still had perennial underdogs despite good casts

you aren't supposed to be a perennial underdog when you're the goat and have a good team..

a good team + goat = perennial favorites and juggernaut, not perennial underdog and sympathy seeker like lebron's teams




Lebron never took a low seed deep in the playoffs, but MJ took a low seed to ECF:

"All three reporters that travelled with the team picked Cleveland to win.. MJ looked at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 3 games and said 'we took care of you already'.. Then he looks at the reporter who picked Cleveland in 4 games and says 'we took care of you already too.'... And he looks at me (Sam Smith) and says 'tonight, we take care of you'"..

Then he proceeded to hit "the shot", which sent a Cleveland home.. The Bulls moved on to the ECSF, where they executed another upset, before facing the Bad Boys in the ECF.. The bulls were the only team to take 2 games off the Bad Boys that year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBZH4nICAE4&t=17m18s

But again, being an underdog is a bad thing... you aren't supposed to be a perennial underdog when you're the goat and have a good team..

a good team + goat = perennial favorites and juggernaut, not perennial underdog and sympathy seeker like lebron's teams



The Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They ate like kings and gluttons on Lebron's watch, while lebron got a couple scraps..

They're the consensus best teams of the era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. ... gtfo
.

[3ball]

well first you're just ignoring one certain player in kd lol but let's go off these claims then. Do you believe the same for other versions of the Bulls [COLOR="DarkRed"]or do the kd warriors win[/COLOR]?

The goat Bulls were never down 3-2, on the ropes and needing an opponent injury to advance

So adding KD doesn't matter - MJ/Scottie aren't getting hurt or tricking off a 3-2 lead like Houston in 18'

If you do, then does MJ being an underdog according to you in 91, 93, and 98 mean you truly believe the lakers, suns, and jazz are better than the kd warriors.

The Bulls were Vegas favorites in all their Finals, but underdogs in the media/public perception for 91' and 98' because they were newbies and oldies, respectively

Ultimately, the Bulls are considered the goat dynasty and goat team since the 3-point line was invented

Otoh, lebron routinely loses with good teams and has inferior teams to his peers.. Specifically, the Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They're the consensus best teams of this era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. ... gtfo

[StrongLurk]

The goat Bulls were never down 3-2, on the ropes and needing an opponent injury to advance

So adding KD doesn't matter - MJ/Scottie aren't getting hurt or tricking off a 3-2 lead like Houston in 18'



The Bulls were Vegas favorites in all their Finals, but underdogs in the media/public perception for 91' and 98' because they were newbies and oldies, respectively

Ultimately, the Bulls are considered the goat dynasty and goat team since the 3-point line was invented

Otoh, lebron routinely loses with good teams and has inferior teams to his peers.. Specifically, the Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They're the consensus best teams of this era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. ... gtfo

More trolling.

[NBAGOAT]

The goat Bulls were never down 3-2, on the ropes and needing an opponent injury to advance

So adding KD doesn't matter - MJ/Scottie aren't getting hurt or tricking off a 3-2 lead like Houston in 18'



The Bulls were Vegas favorites in all their Finals, but underdogs in the media/public perception for 91' and 98' because they were newbies and oldies, respectively

Ultimately, the Bulls are considered the goat dynasty and goat team since the 3-point line was invented

Otoh, lebron routinely loses with good teams and has inferior teams to his peers.. Specifically, the Warriors/Spurs are 2-1 and 3-1 versus Lebron, including 2 record blowouts and 2 sweeps

They're the consensus best teams of this era.. and they're organic teams, while lebron hand-picked a couple top players and teamed up with them, twice.. that's how he won, but you're shamelessly pretending it's the same thing as what MJ did.. ... gtfo

i didnt say anything about lebron here lol. which one should be the final say media perception or vegas odds. Please pick one so ik where you stand

[3ball]

i didnt say anything about lebron here lol. [COLOR="Navy"]which one should be the final say media perception or vegas odds[/COLOR]. Please pick one so ik where you stand

It doesn't matter

Just have the best team of your era

MJ did, while Lebron doesn't and ceded the best teams to multiple other teams/players

Infact, Lebron gets spanked every Finals, except a couple times when teammates saved him, or a shortened season versus beginners whose luck had run out

It's significant that lebron's Finals losses are decisive losses, while his wins are literally one-possession toss-ups that could've gone either way.. we don't know if lebron is really a 1-9 bum because he needed luck to win a couple of his rings
.

[NBAGOAT]

It doesn't matter

Just have the best team of your era

MJ did, while Lebron doesn't and ceded the best teams to multiple other teams/players

Infact, Lebron gets spanked every Finals, except a couple times when teammates saved him, or a shortened season versus beginners whose luck had run out

ok then i'm done with this conversation and i havent mentioned lebron at all. You want to be able to say the bulls had the best teams based on vegas odds for certain threads but be able to say they were an underdog in certain finals/series based on media perception(most likely because of a talent deficit) in other threads to ofc tear down some players. Intellectually dishonest.

you dont have to say the bulls are underdogs to show the bulls had less talent compared to other contenders. There are other simpler ways to discuss talent besides defaulting to pre series predictions. even your lazy use of box score stats is better.

[Vino24]

Russell destroyed Wilt just about every year in the playoffs. Who did MJ face that was comparable to Wilt? (You have Wilt as 2nd GOAT so you can't side step this one)

Yikes!

[3ball]

Russell destroyed Wilt just about every year in the playoffs. Who did MJ face that was comparable to Wilt? (You have Wilt as 2nd GOAT so you can't side step this one)

What point are you trying to make and I'll respond to it

To answer the question you posed - Shaq was the closest thing to Wilt that MJ faced

But remember, MJ relied on teamwork to win, not just talent - and when he had a full season to generate the teamwork with an entirely new cast, he swept Shaq.. it wasn't a contest

[Vino24]

What point are you trying to make and I'll respond to it

To answer the question you posed - Shaq was the closest thing to Wilt that MJ faced

But remember, MJ relied on teamwork to win, not just talent - and when he had a full season to generate the teamwork with an entirely new cast, he swept Shaq.. it wasn't a contest

MJ had great team work no doubt but it wasn

[3ball]

ok then i'm done with this conversation and i havent mentioned lebron at all. You want to be able to say the bulls had the best teams based on vegas odds for certain threads but be able to say they were an underdog in certain finals/series based on media perception(most likely because of a talent deficit) in other threads to ofc tear down some players. Intellectually dishonest.

No, both are simply true

The bulls were Vegas favorites for all their Finals, and yes, media/fan/public perception underdogs in 91' and 98'

But you're derailing about the odds to avoid the thread title

MJ had the best teams of his era as a goat must

[3ball]

MJ had great team work no doubt but it wasn’t on Russell’s GOAT 8-peating teamwork level

MJ's tight relationship with his dad was the foundation of his mental fortitude..

But it became a vulnerability when his dad was taken away - he didn't feel like playing anymore..

his stint in baseball was literal therapy, as it was always a dream of MJ's dad for MJ to play baseball... A biographer of MJ once described it - MJ was like "we're doin' this Pop", everyday on his way to baseball practice.. It was "classic mourning"

So ultimately, the murder of MJ's father prevented 8 straight rings and breaking Russell's record.. It's a testament to MJ's goatness that he had a chance to achieve the feat in the modern era - NO ONE thought 8 straight was possible in the modern era, but goat MJ could've done it...
.