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Old 08-07-2012, 06:40 PM   #61
D.J.
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
Did you see the roster of that team Dirk to 67 wins? Until the 09 Cavs, they were easily the worst 67 win team ever in terms of talent. They choked, no one is denying that. But KG was too busy not making the playoffs in his prime at the time. With Dirk you are guaranteed 50 wins and playoff every season. (not counting this strike-shotened season). People talk about how great KG is as a 2 way player, but the man missed the playoffs in his prime 3 times in a row. No way does that happen with Dirk.


That Dallas team in '07 lost just 15 times all year. There's no excuse to lose in round 1 to a team that struggled to stay over .500 and went 16-5 in their final 21 just to make the playoffs. At least if Dirk or another top player went down, you could see why they would lose. They didn't lose because of injuries. They lost because they were badly outcoached and Dirk not stepping up.

As for KG, tell me how he should be blamed for lack of team success in Minnesota? Cassell missed 23 games in '05 and Sprewell was utter shit, yet Minny still won 44 games. In '06, guys were traded and Cassell and Sprewell were both gone. In '07, the best players after KG were Ricky Davis and Mark Blount. There's a reason Minny hasn't cracked 30 wins since KG left. Dirk's supporting cast was way better than KG's. Dirk had Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Nick Van Exel, Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison, Shawn Bradley. He had scorers, jump shooting big men, elite shot blocking, a very good point guard, respectable bench players. Outside of Cassell and Sprewell, who did KG have? Wally Szczerbiak, Ricky Davis, Troy Hudson, Trenton Hassell, Michael Olowokandi. Very good supporting cast.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:58 PM   #62
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
Probably not. Why would they? That Mavs team was built around Dirk's strengths.

Would Dirk be able to take Minny's supporting cast in '04 to the Conference finals? With guys like Sprewell, Hudson, Cassell and Szczerbiak?

Not sure why not. He took a team without much in 06 all the way to the finals...going through the Spurs in the midst of only losing 1 series in three years.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:01 PM   #63
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by D.J.
That Dallas team in '07 lost just 15 times all year. There's no excuse to lose in round 1 to a team that struggled to stay over .500 and went 16-5 in their final 21 just to make the playoffs. At least if Dirk or another top player went down, you could see why they would lose. They didn't lose because of injuries. They lost because they were badly outcoached and Dirk not stepping up.

As for KG, tell me how he should be blamed for lack of team success in Minnesota? Cassell missed 23 games in '05 and Sprewell was utter shit, yet Minny still won 44 games. In '06, guys were traded and Cassell and Sprewell were both gone. In '07, the best players after KG were Ricky Davis and Mark Blount. There's a reason Minny hasn't cracked 30 wins since KG left. Dirk's supporting cast was way better than KG's. Dirk had Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Nick Van Exel, Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison, Shawn Bradley. He had scorers, jump shooting big men, elite shot blocking, a very good point guard, respectable bench players. Outside of Cassell and Sprewell, who did KG have? Wally Szczerbiak, Ricky Davis, Troy Hudson, Trenton Hassell, Michael Olowokandi. Very good supporting cast.

Most of this is true, but you can't discount how much better the Warriors were than their record. Nearly all of their good players were hurt for big chunks of the year....and they were all healthy and on fire going into the playoffs.

Combine that with the style they played and the coaching of Nellie vs Avery...and you had the perfect storm.

That does not excuse Dirk from playing like ass, but between the matchups and Avery losing his ****ing mind...it honestly wasn't a huge shock to a lot of Mavs fans. I was furious when we drew the Warriors in the first round.

I also think you under-rate the 04 team for the Wolves. Not great or anything, but not bad. A lot like the 07 Mavs. A team that had no business winning 67 games...that was absurd.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:12 PM   #64
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Most of this is true, but you can't discount how much better the Warriors were than their record. Nearly all of their good players were hurt for big chunks of the year....and they were all healthy and on fire going into the playoffs.


They weren't that much better than their record indicated. They were probably a 45 win team if everyone was healthy, but their first round series win was largely because of Don Nelson and Avery Johnson not making any adjustments. Golden State got smacked around by Utah the next round, so they really weren't that good of a team.


Quote:
Combine that with the style they played and the coaching of Nellie vs Avery...and you had the perfect storm.


But all that could have been avoided had Avery Johnson made adjustments. Could have been an easy five game series win.


Quote:
That does not excuse Dirk from playing like ass, but between the matchups and Avery losing his ****ing mind...it honestly wasn't a huge shock to a lot of Mavs fans. I was furious when we drew the Warriors in the first round.


Granted 3 of their 15 losses were to GS, but the Mavs were still a 67 win team. Playoffs is a whole nother ball game.


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I also think you under-rate the 04 team for the Wolves. Not great or anything, but not bad.


Not at all. I've praised that team numerous times and mentioned several times that was the only year in Minny that KG had any decent, consistent help. Sam Cassell's injury cost them the Western Conference and quite possibly a title.


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A lot like the 07 Mavs. A team that had no business winning 67 games...that was absurd.


Maybe not 67 wins, but still 55-60 easily. The '07 Mavs were a deeper team.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:08 PM   #65
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
And its not even close, really.
LOL @ your title. Typical troll title. More successful? Of course. That doesn't help Dirk top Garnett any day of any week and you know it.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:19 PM   #66
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

More successful in that he was much more fortunate through out his career. Even KG's best teams in minnesota were comparable to most of Dirk's worst.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:31 PM   #67
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by KingBeasley08
Does anyone dispute that..?

Only racist and stupid people.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:36 PM   #68
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by 04mzwach
LOL @ your title. Typical troll title. More successful? Of course. That doesn't help Dirk top Garnett any day of any week and you know it.


Dirk >>>> KG

Like I said, give me the lead-dog.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:38 PM   #69
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
Dirk >>>> KG

Like I said, give me the lead-dog.
Stop acting like you've seen KG in his prime. You started watching basketball in 2010 at the earliest.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:41 PM   #70
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by CJ Mustard
Stop acting like you've seen KG in his prime. You started watching basketball in 2010 at the earliest.


I think you are still upset about your dogs.hit franchise trading Dirk for Robert Traylor.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:46 PM   #71
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by 04mzwach
LOL @ your title. Typical troll title. More successful? Of course. That doesn't help Dirk top Garnett any day of any week and you know it.
At least he acknowledges his limitations.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:47 PM   #72
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Not sure why not. He took a team without much in 06 all the way to the finals...going through the Spurs in the midst of only losing 1 series in three years.

That Mavs team was #1 in offensive rating. They were much better than Minny in '04.

What the Wolves lose on defense they don't get much back on offense. Not sure why people forget KG in his prime was a monster offensively.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:54 PM   #73
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
I think you are still upset about your dogs.hit franchise trading Dirk for Robert Traylor.
The Bucks didn't trade Dirk, they moved up to get Tractor Traylor. They were picking on behalf of the Mavs at #9. But you wouldn't know this because you weren't watching basketball back then.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:01 PM   #74
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

Like heck Dirk was more successful as lead dog over KG!!! I will say they were even given what they were dealt with. Dirk had a team particular built around him. Each season Mark Cuban would spend $$$ trying to get the right parts around Dirk. KG did not have that option here in Minnesota. To me, I still rank KG over Dirk because KG was a better all-around player. Let Dirk try to guard the point guard, shooting guard, small forward, power forward, or a center, and then carry a team on the offensive end like KG had to do day in and day out. Puh-lease.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:06 PM   #75
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

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Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
Dirk >>>> KG

Like I said, give me the lead-dog.

KG >>>>> Dirk
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