Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2017, 11:18 AM   #31
Hey Yo
5-time NBA All-Star
 
Hey Yo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 11,248
Default Re: Does any other top 20 player have a blemish on their career equal to 2011?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarberSchool
Fully agree. I think he will go down in history as the greatest athletic specimen to ever play. But this ain't track and field. He will be on the tail end of the top ten, behind the real iron will killers.
And who would those be?
Hey Yo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2017, 11:29 AM   #32
Psileas
NBA rookie of the year
 
Psileas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Great!
Posts: 6,731
Default Re: Does any other top 20 player have a blemish on their career equal to 2011?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey Yo
It's was way more than once.




Tragic choked many times in the Finals while having the easiest path in NBA history to get there.

Cavs go 4-0 in the first round and people cry saying LeBron literally had a first round bye...while Magic and the Lakers DID get first round byes for winning their pathetic conference until the NBA changed the first round format to a grueling "3 game series"

Yeah, because we all know Magic's career went downhill when the NBA got rid of the byes and the 3 game series, it's not as if first rounds are basically conservation/stat padding time for serious title contenders...
Btw, Magic's West at its worst was still better than several Easts of the LeBron era.
Psileas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2017, 11:40 AM   #33
Hey Yo
5-time NBA All-Star
 
Hey Yo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 11,248
Default Re: Does any other top 20 player have a blemish on their career equal to 2011?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psileas
Yeah, because we all know Magic's career went downhill when the NBA got rid of the byes and the 3 game series, it's not as if first rounds are basically conservation/stat padding time for serious title contenders...
Btw, Magic's West at its worst was still better than several Easts of the LeBron era.
As a player, would you rather play 4-7 games in the first round or possible get almost 2 weeks off to rest up and heal??

That West played ZERO defense compared to today's and past East teams and it's not even close.

Let me know when LeBron (or any other 00's East Finals teams) faces 3 teams who were a combined 10 games under .500 en route to getting to the Finals like the Lakers did in '87
Hey Yo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2017, 12:43 PM   #34
Psileas
NBA rookie of the year
 
Psileas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Great!
Posts: 6,731
Default Re: Does any other top 20 player have a blemish on their career equal to 2011?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey Yo
As a player, would you rather play 4-7 games in the first round or possible get almost 2 weeks off to rest up and heal??

That West played ZERO defense compared to today's and past East teams and it's not even close.

Let me know when LeBron (or any other 00's East Finals teams) faces 3 teams who were a combined 10 games under .500 en route to getting to the Finals like the Lakers did in '87

As a superstar who tries to boost his legacy and pad his stats as much as possible, which is today's norm? Not to mention there's such a thing as getting cold due to overwaiting.
Would you, as a player, play under 80's conditions or today's conditions? 80's salaries or today's salaries? 80's shorter, more compact schedule or today's schedule?
If the West played zero defense, today's East plays zero offense, which is why there's a winning disparity that wasn't ever that big in Magic's years.
Not Magic's fault that LeBron's Eastern teams couldn't pull an upset to save their lives. You talk about the '87 Sonics as if they got to the Western Finals by beating average teams, that they didn't have to beat the former finalists Rockets and the 55-27 Mavs. It's one thing to be a .500 team in the regular season and not improve in the postseason and another to get hot and play your best ball when it matters most.
Psileas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2017, 01:24 PM   #35
Hey Yo
5-time NBA All-Star
 
Hey Yo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 11,248
Default Re: Does any other top 20 player have a blemish on their career equal to 2011?

[quote=Psileas]
Quote:
As a superstar who tries to boost his legacy and pad his stats as much as possible, which is today's norm?
He does? Lebron's takes 30+ FGA in postseasons?? He did so against GSW but that was due to no other teammate able to create their own shot. By doing so he had the Cavs up 2-1 in 2015. Then petered out down the stretch. Was Magic accused of padding his stats in Game 6 of the 1980 Finals? Was MJ accused and belittled for padding stats in the Finals?

Quote:
Not to mention there's such a thing as getting cold due to overwaiting.
So the teams who had first round byes were the underdogs in the 2nd round due to having time off? Is that how Vegas and other betting venues saw it? If it was so bad to have a first round bye, then teams poised for the postseason would have tanked so they'd make sure they didn't win their conference, correct?

Kevin Love would have never got injured in the 1st round against Boston in 2015 if the Cavs had the pleasure of getting a bye.

I guarantee if you poll coaches coaches/ GM's..... the majority would choose a bye over playing a 7gm series.

Quote:
Would you, as a player, play under 80's conditions or today's conditions? 80's salaries or today's salaries? 80's shorter, more compact schedule or today's schedule?
Not sure what you're going with this, but obviously today's money is better but back then's money was very good for that time. Jordan's 8yr, 25mil dollar deal was HUGE back then.

Quote:
If the West played zero defense, today's East plays zero offense, which is why there's a winning disparity that wasn't ever that big in Magic's years. Not Magic's fault that LeBron's Eastern teams couldn't pull an upset to save their lives.
Not following you again. You're really comparing the 80's West D, vs. the East's over the last 15yrs? They're comparable?? Is that why you had 260-70-80 combined point games back then while BARELY using the 3pt line?

What upsets are you referring to? How many series was LA the underdog before getting to the Finals?? How many times were they the underdogs in the Finals??

Quote:
You talk about the '87 Sonics as if they got to the Western Finals by beating average teams, that they didn't have to beat the former finalists Rockets and the 55-27 Mavs. It's one thing to be a .500 team in the regular season and not improve in the postseason and another to get hot and play your best ball when it matters most.
Bottom line is Magic and the Lakers played 3 teams who were a combined 10gms under .500 to get to the Finals. James never sniffed that easiness that Magic had that postseason.
Hey Yo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2017, 03:10 PM   #36
aj1987
MH!
 
aj1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 21,651
Default Re: Does any other top 20 player have a blemish on their career equal to 2011?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psileas
As a superstar who tries to boost his legacy and pad his stats as much as possible, which is today's norm?
The dude you rep and worship literally played for his stats and did not even give a shit about winning.
aj1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2017, 06:42 PM   #37
Psileas
NBA rookie of the year
 
Psileas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Great!
Posts: 6,731
Default Re: Does any other top 20 player have a blemish on their career equal to 2011?

Quote:
He does? Lebron's takes 30+ FGA in postseasons?? He did so against GSW but that was due to no other teammate able to create their own shot. By doing so he had the Cavs up 2-1 in 2015. Then petered out down the stretch. Was Magic accused of padding his stats in Game 6 of the 1980 Finals? Was MJ accused and belittled for padding stats in the Finals?

More rounds+more games=more chances to increease your all-time stats and boost your legacy. What you mention here is irrelevent to my point.

Quote:
So the teams who had first round byes were the underdogs in the 2nd round due to having time off? Is that how Vegas and other betting venues saw it? If it was so bad to have a first round bye, then teams poised for the postseason would have tanked so they'd make sure they didn't win their conference, correct?

Kevin Love would have never got injured in the 1st round against Boston in 2015 if the Cavs had the pleasure of getting a bye.

I guarantee if you poll coaches coaches/ GM's..... the majority would choose a bye over playing a 7gm series.

You're deliberately talking in absolutes to refute the point. Just stop. Never have I said that having time off is the only reason some team may lose some hot streak. But it does happen.
Btw, I'm not among the ones who have accused LeBron of having easy first rounds. But pretending that an extra round would make the road of Magic's Lakers any harder is baseless. The same extra fatigue that would affect the Lakers would also affect their later round competition. And, like I said before, Magic did play 4 rounds from 1984 and on. Did it do anything to his team success?

Quote:
Not following you again. You're really comparing the 80's West D, vs. the East's over the last 15yrs? They're comparable?? Is that why you had 260-70-80 combined point games back then while BARELY using the 3pt line?

No, I compare the 80's West's D to today's East's O, which is the reason today's West's winning advantage disparity over the East is even bigger than 80's Eastern advantage over Magic's West.

Quote:
What upsets are you referring to? How many series was LA the underdog before getting to the Finals?? How many times were they the underdogs in the Finals??


The upset that the 40-42 Sonics pulled off, which you translate as an easy road for the Lakers.
Put it this way: What if the 2016 Thunder, who beat the 67-15 Spurs, also beat the 73-9 Warriors in WCF Game 7 and then lost to the Cavs in the NBA Finals? Would you call the Cavs lucky for only facing a 55-27 team in the Finals (instead of Warriors or Spurs) and having home court advantage? Do you call the 1986 Celtics lucky for facing in the Finals the Rockets, who still had managed to beat the Showtime Lakers?
Psileas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2017, 08:21 PM   #38
LAZERUSS
NBA Legend
 
LAZERUSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 17,016
Default Re: Does any other top 20 player have a blemish on their career equal to 2011?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj1987
The dude you rep and worship literally played for his stats and did not even give a shit about winning.

And your POS idol is the GOAT QUITTER and COWARD in NBA history.

A player who has QUIT on his teams so many times that you would need more than ten fingers to count them all. Even his own owner has accused him of QUITTING MULTIPLE times.

He has also QUIT with MENSTRUAL CRAMPS, not once, but TWICE in his Finals career.

He has joined up to form Super Teams MULTIPLE times, and then jumped ship when he fell on his face in the Finals.

He has watched a 5-8 white player completely shut his ass down in one Finals; watched a second year unknown completely shut his ass down in another (and then watched the GOAT Stats-padder put up his normal MEANINGLESS stats in blowouts in that same series); and watched yet another role player off the bench completely shut his ass down in yet another Finals (of course the GOAT stats-padder shot-jacked his team down the tollet with a horrific .398 FG% in an all-out attempt to set a Finals scoring record...the team be damned); and then was shelled in yet another Finals by a far greater player, in a series blowout, and in which he put up the worst defense ever by a borderline Top-10 player in his prime.

The man has the two WORST Finals in NBA history by a borderline Top-10 player in his prime.

He has been called a QUITTER by MANY; has had his jerseys burned by his "fans"; and watched fellow teammates jump ship because he was a prima-donna who only cared about his own legacy.

He has REPEATEDLY had his TEAMMATES take the biggest shots in the biggest games; and has passed up on point blank layups that would have won the game, to pass to a teammate at 25 feet away, and then blamed that teammate for missing the shot. THEN, he has passed up NEEDED 3pt shots, to take two point gimmes just to boost his own stats (again, the team be damned.)

He has been part of the worst Finals beatdown in NBA Finals history; won a title because he missed a last second shot so badly that a teammate was able to tip to yet another teammate who hit the series saving shot.

And in another game seven of the Finals, he once again choked his ass off down the stretch, and once again watched a TEAMMATE hit the series-saving shot. In a series in which he was already waving the white flag at the end of game four, and needed the commissioner to step in and save his choking ass by suspending the best player in the series (and then key injuries to that teams three best players in the last three games.)

He has an entire HISTORY of QUITTING (and even encouraging other's to QUIT, including a college team that blew a 12 point lead in the last minute.) He has REPEATEDLY CHOKED his ass off in his biggest games, and then blamed his teammates for losing them. He has put together the highest payrolls in NBA history, and then took them down in flames...and again...blamed THEM for losing.

LeCHOKE... the COURT JESTER and the COWARDLY KING of QUIT.

Last edited by LAZERUSS : 10-08-2017 at 08:36 PM.
LAZERUSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2017, 09:37 PM   #39
raprap
NBA rookie of the year
 
raprap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,875
Default Re: Does any other top 20 player have a blemish on their career equal to 2011?

Still cringing when I remember 2011. 2004 Kobe was equally terrible too. 2016 Game 7 Curry aswell but hes not top 20 yet imo.
raprap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2017, 11:37 PM   #40
aj1987
MH!
 
aj1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 21,651
Default Re: Does any other top 20 player have a blemish on their career equal to 2011?

Ilt Chokerlain facts from the '69 Finals:

1. 8th in PPG from both teams

2. 4th in PPG on West's team

3. 2nd WORST FT% from both teams

4. WORST FT% from both team (players who took over 2 FT's a game)

5. Only player in history to lose a ring with two All-Stars, 2 All-NBA, 1 All-Def, and a player averaging 39/5/8

6. 8.8 PPG drop from RS to the Finals

7. 8.3% drop in FG% from RS to the Finals

8. 7.1% drop in FT% from RS to the Finals

9. Stats 'wilted' even though he saw a 2 minute increase in playing time from the RS to the Finals

Again, these are all FACTS, Lozerus. None of them are opinions.

The mental midget, Ilt Chokerlain, was hilariously bad in the postseason. No wonder he's considered to be the GOAT choker and statpadder.

"Greatest low-post scorer" ....

Dude would be lucky to average over 15, if he played in the modern era and not that garbage ass joke era.

Fact #1 - Chokerlain played in an absolutely shitty and garbage ass era
Fact #2 - Chokerlain played for his stats and didn't give a shit about winning
Fact #3 - Chokerlain choked HARD and this can be evidenced by his significant drop off in production

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chokerlain's ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chokerlain's ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chokerlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Ilt's scoring drop off from the RS to the PO's:

'60 - -4.4
'61 - -1.4
'62 - -15.4
'63 - Missed the PO's despite averaging 44.8/24.3/3.4 on 52.8%
'64 - -2.2
'65 - -5.4
'66 - -5.5
'67 - -2.4
'68 - -0.6
'69 - -6.6
'70 - -5.2 (Injured his knee, so not really gonna count this year)
'71 - -2.4
'72 - -0.1
'73 - -2.8

Those numbers would translate to ~15 PPG in the '90's, BTW. Playing in a weak ass era definitely helped boost his stats.


Ilt's FG% from the RS to the PO's:

1960 - +3.5
1961 - -4.0
1962 - -3.9
1964 - +1.8
1965 - +2.0
1966 - -3.1
1967 - -10.4
1968 - -6.1
1979 - -3.8
1970 - -1.9
1971 - -9.0
1972 - -8.6
1973 - -17.5


Lets look at a couple of physical behemoths from the '60's:






Stick figures? Yep.


1973 NBA Finals
Lakers had HCA but lost the series in 5 games. Lakers lost by 4 points in Game 2 in which Ilt shot 1-9 from the freethrow line. Ilt put up 5 points in Game 3 which the Lakers lost by 4 points again. In Game 5 Wilt shot 5-14 from the freethrow line. This capped off Ilt's 5th series loss with HCA to end his career.

Ilt's FT shooting for the series: 14-38 (36.8%)

1970 NBA Finals
Another Game 7 loss for the Lakers. Ilt shot 1-10 from the freethrow in a Game 1 loss. In Game 7 Ilt shot 11 freethrow attempts, only making 1.

Ilt's FT shooting for the series: 23-67 (34.3%)
Ilt's FT shooting in Game 7: 1-11 (9.1%)

1969 NBA Finals
Lakers had HCA and were up 2-0 in the series and also 3-2 after Game 5. Lakers managed to lose the next 2 games including a 2 point loss in Game 7 in which Ilt missed 9 freethrows (4-13) while Jerry West put up 42-13-12 and won Finals MVP. Wilt shot 1-5 from the filed and missed 8 freethrows in a Game 6 loss and 1-5 from the field in Game 2. In a pivotal Game 4 Ilt shot 2-11 from the line in a 1-point loss, a win would have gave the Lakers a 3-1 series lead. Boston Celtic Sam Jones outscored Ilt Chokerlain again in Game 7, doing so in all 4 Game 7s.

Ilt's FT shooting for the series: 24-66 (36.4%)
Ilt's FT shooting in Game 7: 4-13 (30.8%)

1968 Division Finals
Another HCA series loss for Ilt. Ilt shot 6-21 from the field and missed 15 freethrows in a Game 6 loss. In Game 7, Ilt made 4 field goals and missed 9 freethrows in a 4 point loss. Ilt was the 9th leading scorer and the 5th leading scorer on his own team in that game 7 with 14 points

Ilt's FT shooting for the series: 39-91 (42.9%)
i's FT shooting in Game 7: 6-15 (40.0%)

1966 Division Finals
His Sixers lost to Boston in 5 games. In the elimination Game 5, Ilt missed 17 freethrows (8-25) in a 8 point loss.

Ilt's FT shooting for the series: 28-68 (41.2%)

1965 Division Finals
Ilt shot 7-21 from the field in a Game 3 loss. The Sixers lost by 1 point in Game 7, Ilt missed 7 freethrows (6-13) in that game. Ilt was once again outscored by Sam Jones in a Game 7.

1964 NBA Finals
His team lost the series in 5 games. Ilt shot 4-12 from the freethrow line in a Game 1 loss.

Ilt's FT shooting for the series: 22-48 (45.8%)

1963 Regular season
Ilt led his team to a 31-49 record, a record too poor to make the playoffs.

1962 Division Finals
Coming off his 50.4 ppg season, his PPG in the Playoffs dropped down by 15 points. In Game 7, Ilt was the 4th leading scorer with 22 points in a loss.

Ilt's FT shooting for the series: 22-48 (45.8%)

1961 Division Semifinals
Ilt's Warriors had HCA and were facing the 38-41 Nationals. The result? The sub .500 Nationals swept Ilt's team 3-0. In an elimination Game 3 Ilt shot 7-14 from the freethrow line in a 3-point loss.

Ilt FT shooting for the series: 21-38 (55.3%)

1960 Division Finals
After a regular season of 38.4 ppg, Ilt followed that up with a 30.5 ppg series in the Division Finals vs. Boston.

Ilt FT shooting for the series: 35-65 (53.8%).





You keep proving my point that you know jackshit about basketball, boxscore watching loser.
aj1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:


Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:04 AM.






NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:

NBA Basketball

NBA Rumors

Basketball Blog

NBA Videos

Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
Instagram
YouTube
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy