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Old 02-27-2013, 12:18 AM   #16
imdaman99
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

back when webber was on the kings and dirk was nearing his prime (or in it), webber used to dominate him. but that was a long time ago. and dirk has a ring as mr clutch, webber does not.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Dirk developed a lot since the CWebb days, that was nowhere near his prime.

This sounds batshit crazy but I think Dirk is about to enter a new prime. He seems to be great at reinventing his game as he ages and here lately he has looked more agile than he has in years.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Prime Dirk aka 2nd GOAT PF.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Love Chris, but Dirk.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miles berg
Dirk developed a lot since the CWebb days, that was nowhere near his prime.

This sounds batshit crazy but I think Dirk is about to enter a new prime. He seems to be great at reinventing his game as he ages and here lately he has looked more agile than he has in years.



I could believe that.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:58 AM   #21
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Webber's jumpshots were always flat. Dirk on the other hand....
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:08 AM   #22
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

without that team around him in 2011, Dirk wouldn't even be considered on the same level as CWebb. Rings really do change ppl's perception of a player. this was the same Dirk that was a perennial play off choker until he got that team in 2011.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:27 AM   #23
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I<3NBA
without that team around him in 2011, Dirk wouldn't even be considered on the same level as CWebb. Rings really do change ppl's perception of a player. this was the same Dirk that was a perennial play off choker until he got that team in 2011.

One of the dumbest posts Ive ever read. And that says alot

Last edited by Cone : 02-27-2013 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:46 AM   #24
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cone
One of the dumbest posts Ive ever read. And that says alot

That poster is just a troll. He posts about how rings change perception, then talks about Dirk's playoff choking, as if that's not all about perception as well.

Don't feel like typing all this out again, but Dirk's playoff career before he won the title:

Quote:
Let's check out Dirk since 2001:

2001
RS: 22/9/2/1/1 on 47/39/84 (82 games)
PO: 23/8/1/1/1 on 42/28/88 (10 games)

*Dirk's first playoff run wasn't that eventful, but there are some games to talk about. His team faced elimination 5 times. Here was his production in those games:

Game 3 vs Jazz: 33/10/2/1blk on 9-19fg 2-7(3pt) 13-14ft
Game 4 vs Jazz: 33/8/2 on 10-19fg 5-10(3pt) 8-9ft
Game 5 vs Jazz: 18/4/1/1stl on 3-11fg 2-4(3pt) 10-10ft
Game 4 vs Spurs: 30/9/1/1stl on 11-18fg 0-1(3pt) 8-8ft
Game 5 vs Spurs: 42/18/6stl/2ast/1blk on 14-24fg 0-1(3pt) 14-18ft

Now granted, Dirk didn't play well earlier in those series, but in 4 of 5 elimination games he did raise his game in "tense situations". And it was just his first playoff run and for the Dallas Mavericks, who were in their first playoffs since 1990... also won their first playoff series since 1988.

2002
RS: 23/10/2/1/1 on 48/40/85 (76 games)
PO: 28/13/2/2/1 on 45/57/88 (8 games)

*Dirk's first all-star year and he raises his game in the playoffs. He had a great first round but a much better Kings team beats the Mavs in 5. Dirk also struggles. 1 elimination game:

Game 5 vs Kings: 33/12/3/1/1 on 13-25fg 3-5(3pt) 3-4ft

2003
RS: 25/10/3/1/1 on 46/38/88 (80 games)
PO: 25/11/2/1/1 on 48/44/91 (17 games)

*Mavs make it to the WCF for the first time since 1988. Dirk Raises his game in the playoffs. Unfortunately for Dirk, he gets an injury during Game 3 and is unable to play the rest of the series. The big "what if ?" is, what happens if Dirk rides out the rest of that series ? Are the Mavs going to the Finals ? If so, they probably win their first title back in 2003. 2 Elimination games:

Game 7 vs Blazers: 31/11/1/2/3blk on 12-21fg 1-4(3pt) 6-6ft (this after coming of one of his worst games as a pro.)
Game 7 vs Kings: 30/19/2/1/1 in 12-20fg 3-4(3pt) 3-4ft (granted, C-Webb wasn't play after Game 2 of this series, so yes, this series could have also gone both ways.)

2004
RS: 22/9/3/1/1 on 46/34/88 (77 games)
PO: 27/12/3blk/1/1 on 45/47/86 (5 games)

*Dirk raises his game in the playoffs. Mavs, however, are eliminated from the first round in the "Dirk era". 1 elimination game:

Game 5 vs Kings: 31/14/4blk/1stl on 11-23fg 2-2(3pt) 7-7ft

2005:
RS: 26/10/3/2blk/1stl on 46/40/87 (78 games)
PO: 24/10/3/2blk 1stl on 40/33/83 (13 games)

*Dirk had a great regular season but didn't increase his play in the playoffs and was inconsistent. His scoring and efficiency is down across the board. Mavs lose to the favourite Suns. Also, didn't play up to par in his past elimination game performances:

Game 7 vs Rockets: 14/14/3blk/2ast/1stl on 5-14fg 0-1(3pt) 4-6ft
Game 6 vs Suns: 28/13/6 on 9-25fg 2-5 (3pt) 8-10ft

2006
RS: 27/9/3/1/1 on 48/41/90 (81 games)
PO: 27/11/3/1/1 on 47/34/90 (23 games)

*Mavs as a team overachieved and reach the Finals for the first time in franchise history. However, there are two sides to this season and people remember the Mavs blowing a 2-0 series lead and the series. Dirk, yes choked, on the free throw line, and Game 4 to follow. If he doesn't choke and the Mavs win the title, then it's clearly his best season. 2 elimination games:

Game 7 vs Spurs: 37/15/3/1/1 on 11-20fg 0-1(3pt) 15-16ft
Game 6 vs Heat: 29/15/2/2blk on 10-22fg 1-2(3pt) 8-8ft

2007
RS: 25/9/3/1/1 on 50/42/90 (78 games)
PO: 20/11/2/2/1 on 38/21/84 (6 games)

*Dirk's MVP RS, but we all know what happens in the playoffs. No excuses here, Dirk was terrible for his standards and the Mavs were upset big time (though looking back, the Warriors matched this Mavs team great). 2 elimination games:

Game 5 vs Warriors: 30/12/3/1blk on 7-15fg 2-3(3pt) 14-15ft
Game 6 vs Warriors: 8/10/2/1stl on 2-13fg 0-6(3pt) 4-4ft

2008
RS: 24/9/4/1/1 on 48/36/88 (77 games)
PO: 27/12/4/1blk on 47/33/81 (5 games)

*Dirk has a rebound year from his playoff production, but his Mavs are beaten by the favourite Hornets. Elimination game:

Game 5 vs Hornets: 22/13/6/2blk on 8-21fg 1-5(3pt) 5-7ft

2009
RS: 26/8/2/1/1 on 48/36/89 (81 games)
PO: 27/10/3/1/1 on 52/29/93 (10 games)

*Dirk raises his play in the playoffs and the Mavs upset the #2 ranked Spurs, before losing to the more talented and favourite Nuggets in 5. Elimination games:

Game 4 vs Nuggets: 44/13/3/2/1 on 14-25fg 16-17ft
Game 5 vs Nuggets: 32/10/7/1blk on 9-17fg 2-5(3pt) 12-12ft

2010
RS: 25/8/3/1/1 on 48/42/92 (81 games)
PO: 27/8/3/1/1 on 55/57/95 (5 games)

*Mavs gets upset again by a lower seed, but not because of Dirk's play. Unlike the Warriors series, this isn't Dirk choking. More like a roster of players not synching well enough for a short period of time. 2 elimination games:

Game 5 vs Spurs: 15/9/2/2/3 on 7-14fg 1-1ft
Game 6 vs Spurs: 33/5/4 on 13-21fg 2-4ft 5-6ft


So, as you can see, Dirk had a lot more moments of overachieving and playing great in most elimination games (tense situations). Yes, there were moments he choked, but I think everyone gets the "choking" label, until they get their first title.

And in comparison to Chris Webber ? This shouldn't even be a debate at all. All of Webber's stats go down come playoff time (granted, he was playing different roles by the end of his career), but he was a true choker. I always wondered if that timeout at Michigan had a mental effect on him.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:42 AM   #25
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Dirk all day
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:58 PM   #26
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Prime Dirk is 2011 when he won the Finals. Everyone knows that Cwebb shys away from the ball at clutch situations. In the Kings, Mike Bibby was their guy to hit clutch shots. So Dirk is the better player.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Quote:
Webber's jumpshots were always flat. Dirk on the other hand....
Webber's jumpshot was atrocious. It would always be wide-open from the FT-extended and he would miss it every time. I caught every game I could of Webber from 02 to his retirement and I can't conjure up a memory of him ever making one. I can't even imagine in my mind a jumpshot leaving Webber's hands and going in. My brain can't compute such a thing.

I think Dirk's better, because although Webber was more talented at basically everything, especially passing, Dirk is Mr. 4th quarter and Mr. playoffs. Among PFs ever I don't know if there's any I'd rather have in the 4th quarter of a playoff game unless Duncan counts. I still think KG is better than Dirk because of his defense, but on offense in crunchtime he becomes a roleplayer.

Dirk's had some fairly prominent bad series but I think he will, rightly, be remembered as clutch and a big playoff performer - his poorly constructed teams for the first half of his career notwithstanding.

Although Webber had a more sophisticated back-to-the-basket game, he wasn't more dangerous than Dirk in the paint. Don't think of Dirk as a jumpshooter; he's every bit the attacker Paul Pierce and Wade are.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:43 PM   #28
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Default Re: Prime Cwebb or Prime Dirk who you got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I<3NBA
without that team around him in 2011, Dirk wouldn't even be considered on the same level as CWebb. Rings really do change ppl's perception of a player. this was the same Dirk that was a perennial play off choker until he got that team in 2011.
It's not just winning a ring. It's the things you do to get the ring. I don't think people's perception of Shawn Marion changed when he won a ring.
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